October 27th, 2013, 20:10
(This post was last modified: October 27th, 2013, 20:13 by Gavagai.)
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(October 27th, 2013, 01:07)NobleHelium Wrote: Uh, a lot more time has been spent building an AI for chess than an AI for Civ4. And equality of knowledge about chess is much, much higher than Civ4.
Yep, I listed this reason ("less thought invested"). I only wonder if it is the only answer...
(October 27th, 2013, 12:13)WilliamLP Wrote: I feel good about saying that it would be easier to learn to be competitive and win some games against the Civ IV elite players, vs training to win a single chess game against Magnus Carlsen or Kasparov.
I think we don't have "Kasparov-level" players in civ. No player even comes close to an amount of time/resources typically invested in the training of a chess world champion (this includes resources spent by previous generations to develop chess theory).
Edit: wanted to elaborate a little on my answer to Noble as it's unclear what I wanted to say. I wanted to say that if "time spent" was the only answer, we could hypothesize that we could build an unbeatable civ AI if we just had a lot of time and money. And I'm somehow doubt that it is true.
October 27th, 2013, 22:41
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Well, it's quite possible to build an absurdly strong chess AI, but no one's built a good go AI. Civ, like go, has a moveset that you simply can't brute force calculate the way you can in chess.
October 28th, 2013, 09:44
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I haven't checked in on this thread since my last post until now, but what? Why did you bombard and only leave 3 cats to suicide? You could have as you said bombarded and healed. The other option that I haven't seen mentioned is no bombard. Just sac the entire stack of cats into his city and kill all of his units. Pretty sure that would have done the trick. That's what I was expecting you to do.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
October 28th, 2013, 10:03
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(October 28th, 2013, 09:44)Lewwyn Wrote: I haven't checked in on this thread since my last post until now, but what? Why did you bombard and only leave 3 cats to suicide? You could have as you said bombarded and healed. The other option that I haven't seen mentioned is no bombard. Just sac the entire stack of cats into his city and kill all of his units. Pretty sure that would have done the trick. That's what I was expecting you to do.
The answer is because I'm a noob. 
But you're right, I didn't consider immediately suiciding all cats at all. And reading about it now, I guess the formula for collateral damage doesn't even depend on defensive modifiers at all. I certainly didn't know that! Also according to that article, collateral isn't affected by any attacker modifiers other than Barrage, so CR1 wouldn't increase damage. I always thought it did.
Anyway, thanks for the thoughts - it's good to know what I don't know.
October 28th, 2013, 22:32
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Cat saccing is just incredibly powerful for just that reason. If the unit is at half health it basically also cuts the defense bonus in half as well beyond simply already being half dead. And as the cats hit they also damage the unit is attacks not just the collateral leaving the opponent with 7-8 units that are at 1 health and easily killed even by ancient trash. Yes you lose the cats but you end up with pretty much all 90% battles from there on out.
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
October 28th, 2013, 22:33
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I shouldn't be teaching you this since I may one day have to destroy you. Damn you RB culture!
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
October 28th, 2013, 22:44
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Units fight with the average of their current and maximum strength.
October 28th, 2013, 23:44
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(October 28th, 2013, 22:33)Lewwyn Wrote: I shouldn't be teaching you this since I may one day have to destroy you. Damn you RB culture!
Heh, yeah, the information is all out there on a silver platter, it seems. And I guess it's just a matter of who is willing to spend the effort to learn it all.
October 29th, 2013, 11:00
(This post was last modified: October 29th, 2013, 11:02 by WilliamLP.)
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Another building turn, with not much to talk about.
But CivStats is going pretty crazy. Boldly's score went up in Sutt's turn which could mean he conceded at least one city in a peace deal. This maybe what I'd expect when Sutt doesn't have Feudalism or Engineering yet, and is against a team who just whipped their entire empire into Cataphracts, and rebranded into "Boldly's Smash and Grab". 
Retep spent several hours in game, and he's usually blindingly fast. He switched to Nationhood and Theocracy and did a bunch of whips and drafts, so he clearly has designs on something. At this point (now that we don't look like clear leaders) I doubt it's a boat expedition across the world he's thinking of. But... we've got Chem / Astro coming, maybe even with a few cash upgrades of caravels to frigates, if we absolutely need it.
Boldly wanted to trade world maps. I don't really want to, since we have a near monopoly of scouting on a lot of the islands in the NW. But I'm kind of curious about the state of the world now, and I also value being a good neighbour with them so I reoffered. Boldly is now #2 in land, just behind us! They've also completely crashed GNP.
October 30th, 2013, 10:29
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Yet another builder turn.
From maps:
No news to the lurkers but man, it looks like Boldly got Sutt to concede about 1/3 of his whole empire!
The golden age could probably start next turn. I might wait a couple of turns on it, to finish a few settlers that will be in transit to fill out the west islands soon. This, because running the full specialist economy in those cities will make them useless for anything else.
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