[SPOILERS] Kurumi & wetbandit serve you Hannibal's Breakfast Cocktail (of Persia)

[wetbandit]

Well to be clear, I found an answer on civfanatics, but I'm not sure its reliable. Apparently, you revert back to a civic you know the next turn with no anarchy.

[TheHumanHydra]

I thought you stayed in that civic till you revolted again.

[NobleHelium]

You would get kicked back to the default civic in the column I believe. You definitely can't stay in a civic that you don't have access to.

[wetbandit]

Rifling is in, set research on Steel. In retrospect, might be better to set 100% gold as I'm undecided on where to go. Mainly, I'm responding to WLP also researching Steel and I'd like to have my own cannons to face his in a hypothetical war. Retep is finishing Constitution. Were I to stay on Steel, I would go through SciMeth to Communism and/or Physics for the GPs. Theoretically, this would let me fire a GA and double back through Constitution (and maybe Demo) to get my end-game civics. Continuing on to Assembly Line. I'd like to be in end game civics by the end of my 3rd GA as its unlikely I'll be able to fire the 4-man anytime soon.

Picture dumping somewhat lately and I've got a pretty good map of the world, so holler if you want to see anything in particular.






Future island expedition slated for this seafood atoll:




This is the only island, as far as I can tell, that is Astro only:

[NobleHelium]

What's in the far northwest? Fair bit of fog still there.

[wetbandit]

[wetbandit]

popovpopov77

[wetbandit]

Decision time.

WLP moved his spears outside of his capital, which is now guarded by a sole chariot. There is also a Great Prophet in the city. A Great Artist, born this turn, is heading to his capital, on the western riverside plains tile below, likely to arrive next turn. WLP is in the 2nd turn of his 2GP, MoM-boosted GA, with that Great Prophet and Great Artist presumably ready for the 3GP GA. 24 turns of GA.







I can boat the capital with the 8-mover and cover it with a frigate. I can also land 8 knights next to his Moai city, unfortunately unable to boat, which had a chariot and 3 warriors for MP in there. It is unlikely that he can move enough units to defend it from 6-8 Knights. I can also cover those Galleons with a Frigate.

I have 2 Frigates and he has 1 that I know of in the area. I can whip a 3rd frigate this turn and build 3t frigates from Tail. I have significantly more naval assets in the area, very likely enough to defend my coastline. I could possibly lose Finlandia to a small invasion, and would need to shuffle 2 more troops up there and upgrade the current garrison to Rifles. On land, WLP would be forced to move through Belvedere for retaliation, which has a castle and the bulk of my army. I am up Rifling and will finish Steel in 2 turns to his 3. It's possible that he could move South through Molach's territory, around Lake Belvedere, and attack try to fork Tail and Clammy. The time it would take for him to do that would give me a chance to have cannons with collateral initiative and enough units to put a serious dent in his stack. I am fairly confident I would be able to defend the empire with little risk of losing territory.

The problems:

1. WLP has more power than me. He has numerous camel archers in the middle of his empire, likely positioned to repel a Retep invasion or opportunistically hit BXB.

2. I'm not really in position to occupy territory in the first turns of the war. I will spend a turn dropping off Knights and potentially evacuating them after the Moai city is razed. I could eventually make a play for his Northern Island, which is lightly defended. Indeed, this is a Preventive War to deprive the chief rival of two of the best cities of his empire and make a power play for naval supremacy.

3. This attack will probably give me a game long enemy. This is the type of attack that will cause people to get revenge and ignore or devalue other courses of action. Right now, I am off of WLP's radar. WLP is apparently unconcerned with my border. His border city is lightly garrisoned (3 units) and the city inbetween the border and the capital is empty. His islands are lightly garrisoned, likely 1-2 LBs a city from last I checked. We trade (OB and Ivory for Spices). WLP offered a cow for cow trade 2 turns ago which I accepted. It's not an NAP-stab, but its an unexpected shock that, if I were in his position, would be devastating and lead me to favor strategies that include retribution.

4. The attack has a good chance of diverting both mine and WLP's total resources to fighting each other, thereby enabling Retep to run away with the game. Retep is winning the war versus BXB, at least with conquering their cities on Retep's peninsula and the islands in the sea separating them. He is 3 turns from Democracy. He already has little threat to his core cities, if any, and is poised to colonize further into the island chain. If WLP and I are locked into war, he's going to emerge as the dominant power by default, if he isn't already the dominant power.

5. WLP is in a golden age, but my GNP is not bad compared to his, my ~1350 to his ~1490. It's very probable that he has quite a bit more culture included in that number. He's going to outproduce me like a boss, he may end up producing enough of an army to overwhelm me regardless.

If I'm going to go through with this, I could wait until next turn and hope that he moves the Artist into his capital also, thereby significantly delaying his 3rd GA. I'd also be able to load a 9th Knight on to the regular Galleons, as one is only 2/3 loaded for reasons.

[Commodore]

What would be your benefit?

[wetbandit]

There really isn't much other than the potential to hit a growing power before it gets too big. I don't think he's capable of running away with the game if I don't do it, but I'm taking some time to think about it.

Teching through Steel to eventually attack Molach is a more reasonable option. Hell, WLP has to protect his coast from retep, notably the MoM city.