RB Pitboss #1 Spoilers - Joai of the Incans - Krill/Memphus

[Krill]

Actually, that city is great...is it working the wheat?

[Yazilliclick]

Yeah it looks to be. I was moreso referring to the strategic location, resource wise it's not bad at all.

I'm in a rather marathon debate with regoarrarr about settling the area right now and quite frankly his demands are beginning to get on my nerves. That barb area and the island effect our mainland if settled, his is completely safe but he insists on wording it like it's some favor from him that we get the fish on the coast of our mainland.

[Krill]

Want me to take over for a few minutes?

[Yazilliclick]

I had to call them off. Wish this forum has spoiler tags (if it doesn't I can't find em) as this is rather lengthy :P His final proposal is at the bottom though.

Personally I'm not fond of it and it's more so to his advantage as I can see it. Basically now he wants money from barb city that we kill, two city locations (including one in culture range of fish and one almost smack up against our border city) in exchange for us getting to settle an island and getting the fish on it's coast.

me: Hey
Did you have a chance to check out that island further? I just want to make sure we have an agreement on it.
Sent at 10:47 AM on Wednesday
Dan: hey there
Sent at 11:02 AM on Wednesday
me: hey
Dan: few things for you
#1 - my elephant apparently healed 20 hp in the interturn
so he was at almost full strength
and waxed the barb sword
yay!

me: Congrats
Dan: #2 i did check out the island area
i saw what you meant by the 1 tile water to the west and 3 to the east
but who will be to the south?
there's kind of a no mans land to the south
also 1 tile away from that island
that's in between all 3 of us
me: Yeah I saw that. here are some updates that may be relevant.
As I mentioned sunrise was looking to expand. I said I was fine with him settling in the area in the interest of peace as long as he doesn't settle within 4 tiles of any of my cities. You may want to discuss with him though he wasn't sure he would actually be settling anything.
Dan: yeah
me: Also I just found a barb city this morning in that area just south of that island.
Dan: when i said no mans land i meant between you me and sunrise as well
ah - interesting
me: Personally I hadn't really be planning on expanding there because it's frankly rather exposed to attack.
Dan: right
i saw that there was a canal / peninsula leading from that no man's land towards your land
that seemed like mor logical places for you to be
but that was just my thinking
me: That said it's also as you say right next to the island city so bit of a resource battle should anybody else settle ther epotentially.
Dan: honestly my first thought was that maybe we should all agree not to settle that island
me: Yeah I was planning on stopping over in that area.
Dan: since i think all the resources near there could also be gathered by settling on the coast near it
me: Well that's just trading one area of contention for another really
Dan: what do you mean
Sent at 11:16 AM on Wednesday
me: Well then it becomes who takes that area south of it which is also very close to my mainland and could be uncomfortable.
Dan: but if you had a choke city on your peninsula?
honestly i think that no man's land probably will end up with sunrise
it seems much closer to his lands than yours or mine
but again, i forgot to take a pic of it so i can see it now
Sent at 11:19 AM on Wednesday
me: I have another proposal though. To the south of that island in that area that you build your city but put it 2E 1S of the wheat resource (will be in range of wheat & crabs and coastal and in exchange I get to settle the island.
Would also mean decent space between the cities.
Dan: ok
me: I don't think sunrise is going to build that far up. Both of our culture is going to cut that little spot off soon
Dan: i'll have to look at that
Sent at 11:22 AM on Wednesday
me: ok. Let me know your thoughts when you have a chance. Would be best for both of us not to just let some land sit idle probably.
Dan: right
i think obviously that land is going to get settled eventually
and like you said, i'd prefer that we're both in agreement
on where we should go
where were you planning on putting your choke city?
and do you have a pic that you could share, since we both have paper?
me: Yeah, tensions aren't needed from culture war over resources on borders. On the desert hill tile.
Dan: ok
me: Yeah I can take one give me a couple mins.
Dan: ok
Sent at 11:25 AM on Wednesday
me: http://imgur.com/de3Ww.jpg
Dan: yeah i just unfogged that corn this past turn
that tile and the tile 1E of the corn were like the only tiles that were fogged
so i unfogged them and i was like hey corn!!! :-0
me: hehe yeah I hadn't actually seen it until a few turns ago myself.
As you can see though that island and southern land all borders right on my land to the west.
Dan: so where's the desert hill that you were going to found on?
me: That SW sign is pointing to it, so 1W of what you see.
Dan: 4S 3W of the wheat?
me: Obviously didn't want to give you a shot of my cities
Dan: sure
me: Yup 4S 3W
With it and your iron town that wheat region is going to be behind our borders.
So really not sunrise territory.
Dan: yeah
which of those tiles are hills?
seems like a border town should be on a hill if possible
me: Which of all those tiles in the SS?
Sent at 11:35 AM on Wednesday
me: Ok well from the oasis 88 89 87. From the wheat 7 8 9 are hills and obviously 3 36 from the crab on your side.
Dan: thanks
so, in the channel that i have between sunrise and myself
(brookville lake)
it is mostly 2 water tiles wide
and we agreed that seafood that was on teh west of the 2 tiles were "his" and those on the east were "mine" (or elkads)
even though coastal cities have both sides in the bfc
unfortunately in this case
those 2 fish are 1 tile from both sides
if i agree to let you settle on the island
would you let me get that other fish?
i see that you have a sign there probably for a city to work it (the western fish)
also, where did you see that barb city?
me: Your talking about the fish SE of the island?
Dan: well i'm saying that if you plant on the island, and take that fish
would you let me settle say 1N of the wheat to get the other fish
that way we both get one fish
the other alternative is i could plant say 1E of the wheat
nobody settles the island
and you plant your city W-SW of the west fish where i think you have it marked currently
otherwise if you plant both cities, you get both border fish, which doesn't seem fair
Sent at 11:42 AM on Wednesday
me: I don't really see how the western fish can even be up as negotiation considering it's on my mainland coast. I must say that it seems rather much to bring it up for negotiation. The way I see it this is about an island 1 fish spot and a land based 1 wheat spot.
Dan: oh
sorry
i was not trying to just steal your fish!
i was counting it as 1 tile off your land
and 1 tile off my wheat land
me: Where were you planning on building on the area leading up to that wheat area?
Dan: on the crab / corn area?
me: Yes.
Dan: hadn't dotmapped it out just yet
especially since i literally found about the corn last night
something like on the grass hill 1SE of crabs
and probably a bit NE of the corn? maybe to get the furs?
or there's a river somewhere up there but i seem to remember i couldn't found on the river and still get the corn
there's a sheep too i think 2 or 3E of the grass hill SE of crab
me: sheept 1s3e of crab. and yeah river is too far from corn.
Dan: right
stupid river
me: Blame those silly map makers
Dan: or is it stupid corn?
Sent at 11:49 AM on Wednesday
me: Well from our discussion and looking at it with knowing where you're wanting to build I don't think there's any easy way for us settle those spots.
Sent at 11:51 AM on Wednesday
Dan: well it's unfortunate that with the absence of any long term plans of ours, i have to negotiate both the "yaz is a friend" as well as the "yaz is a potential enemy who might use these spots to boat me" scenario
since we are after all on opposite sides / alliances
at least technically
me: Yeah. Just be thankful I'm holding the reigns these days. Krill had an interesting idea that it would have been a most excellent time to attack you from behind lol
Dan: boo
hiss

me:
Don't think he likes lengthy negotiations hehe
Dan: well i still remember that he made me pay him sailing to not kill my exploring warriors
so in that context, i deserve a fish as payback!
me: I'll ship you one, though it may smell by the time it gets there
Dan: lol
yikes
where are you at (location in real life)
me: PEI, Canada
Dan: ah nice
there's a lady at work here who is from nova scotia i believe
(here being cincinnati ohio us)
me: ah Yeah a fish would certainly not be pleasant by the time it got there hehe
Dan: no
no it would not
Sent at 11:57 AM on Wednesday
me: Anyways I'd propose based on this that neither of us settle those locations. I'll settle no further into that area than by desert hill town and the coast of my mainland and you settle no further west than the crab resource and the coast of your mainland behind it.
I'll also capture and destroy the barb city between us by the wheat.
Dan: where is the barb city exactly?
me: 1W of the wheat.
Dan: ah i see it in the pic now
me: Does that sound fair to avoid any tensions?
Dan: well it sounds fair
but it seems like that just opens it up for someoen else (sunrise?) to settle it
and deprives us of land / resources because we can't work out a fair agreement
all things equal, i'd prefer you and i split that land rather than leave it fallow or let sunrise get it
ya know?
me: I would as well.
Dan: is there another seafood on the other side of the island?
me: If you're looking for a border city on a hill there though that really limits where you can settle.
None that I know of. I don't have the area NE of it explore yet however.
I'd be surprised if there was anything more there since that'd be a fairly thick clump of resources.
Dan: right
brb
Sent at 12:04 PM on Wednesday
Dan: back
me: wb
Dan: so what would be fair compensation do you think for you getting both border fish?
Sent at 12:09 PM on Wednesday
me: You getting the border wheat and crabs and the ability to build another city to the south in the oasis region
Dan: lol
but that is somewhere you can't settle anwyays
if you settle there those cities are impossible for you to defend
Sent at 12:11 PM on Wednesday
me: They'd be no more difficult for me to defend then for you really. They do have more value to me in preventing people from stealing resources along my coast though whereas your mainland resources are more safe from them.
Dan: i think they'd be much more difficult for you to defend
a city say 2N1W of the oasis on the coastal hill
is a pretty good front city
whereas if you have cities there, i could put an army in the desert
and cut those cities off from your main empire
not that i would do that because i'm a peacelover!!!
so put another way, what kind of compensation would you want if i settled on that island?
Sent at 12:15 PM on Wednesday
me: Well I'll be quite frank and perhaps somewhat rude but frankly it is my goal that if I don't settle that island than nobody else does.
Sent at 12:21 PM on Wednesday
me: That island effects my mainland, something it has no effect on for yourself.
Sent at 12:22 PM on Wednesday
Dan: i can understand your reluctance to have anyone else settle that island
but it does affect land that i see as 'mine"
so what do you think about you settle the island, i'll let you have the other fish too,
in exchange for
you raze the barb city - you keep the xp (obviously) and i get the gold
or alternatively leave me the barb city
Sent at 12:26 PM on Wednesday
me: And where would you settle?
Dan: not sure
no further north than the wheat row?
me: Just heads up I have to run in couple minutes so we may have to settle this later.
Dan: ok
Sent at 12:32 PM on Wednesday
me: No fruther north so on the same row as the wheat? And how far west?
Dan: not in the desert
potentially on the hill 3S of the wheat?
not sure if that conflicts with your desert hill city
a lot of that depends on sunrise
me: sunrise can't build there from our discussions though there was no firm agreement.
Dan: oh
so yeah maybe 3S of the wheat
just brainstorming
me: If you build there would you be building anything else more north than that? you'd be giving up the wheat in that plan without another city there.
Dan: yeah
i'd build another city to the north
maybe 2E of wheat?
that shouldn't affect your culture on the fish tile since it would be in the island's first ring
Sent at 12:37 PM on Wednesday
me: Right. Well I do need to run but I'll go over the city planning tonight and how it may effect may already laid out plans. I'll send you an email.
Dan: sounds good
ttyl
me: cya
Sent at 12:39 PM on Wednesday

[Yazilliclick]

Hey Shady,

Haven't had much chance to talk but just wondering how the war is
going and how long you see it continuing?

It looks like I may soon be joining borders with regoarrarr on his NW
border and I don't think I have to point out what fun that could
potentially bring that could be good for us all

Let me know.

-Yaz

Sent to shady to try and get a better sense of what's going on there to feel out if it's worth getting on regoarrarr's bad side. No point in it if they're soon going to be signing NAPs obviously.

[Yazilliclick]

The war is going terribly. We were too slow in attacking and Rego scrambled his defences to make it a stalemate. But Imhotep charged forward anyway and before I could move my units onto his tile, Rego hit his stack and killed about 2/3. Not sure about Rego's casualties.

Were you to attack Rego any time soon while his armies are tied up in the south, you could well do some damage. at the very least it will force him to whip his civ into the ground.

Even with the war not going too well, I see no reason not to stay at war to keep him on his toes anyway. But if you have units that can attack, the best time to do so is right away.

Boy that sounds just great. What a mess. He sounds like he'll stay in the war for a little while maybe but Imo sounds like he's throwing his stuff away. And based on his reply in the IT thread that he's just looking for a replacement not looking to win at all well... I'd be surprised if Shady stays in the war all that long unless regoarrarr keeps it going because it's in his favor. Imo is sounded like he's of no help at all and more of a liability to work with. mhk doesn't really want to get involved with anything.

Good times? :P Maybe I should demand to settle those areas reg wants in favor of going to war with Imo. Munro is asking for peace terms so if I sign that stuff with him then that means we'd be in that position roughly you wanted of Imo being the only enemy on our borders Yeah I know, it's bad to break alliances and deals but somebody is going to have to because as it stands there seems to be a few people in the game not putting a whole lot into it from what I can see (but may not be seeing all).

I'll say I'm more tempted to hit regoarrarr as he is an active big player that could be vulnerable to a hit from that direction right now. The problem is I don't think we'd have the help we'd want/need to pull it off and by the time we were ready to hit him I'd say the war in the south will probably be over.

[Krill]

Might be best to just play for peace, and talk to sunrise about him settling the area next top ZZ. I'd tell him that I expected him to be on our borders, not regoarrarr (this was because we agreed to not let anyone through our borders to attack each other). Then offer him settlers to settle the cities on specific tiles etc, so long as he promises to never gift the cities to regoarrarr.

Basically, we still have a shitload of land to expand into, and I've indicated in the past that I'm not against working with the Lins/sunrise (aka kill Ihmo plan), offering to help sunrise settle that land is a decent offer of help. And it might piss off regoarrarr, which is the huge plus. I think Imho might just go out with a bang very shortly, which might alter the alliances, and we still have to expand up close and person to him, so time is on our side, along with the Lib plan.

On that note...want to ask mhk how fast they could research Chem, incase there is a chance that we can Lib Steel. At the same time, ask dsp if he can head through nationalism, as drafting muskets to go with cannons is pretty nice...

[Yazilliclick]

I'm up for seeing sunrise expand there instead of regoarrarr but from sunrise's reply about settling there it sounds like he's not terribly keen on sticking his neck out any further so to speak.

[Yazilliclick]

Just going over replies to threads about keeping the game going on an interest and how active I see people as I break down the players as such:

imo - not active, not interested
mhk - less active, not very interested
shady - ??, not interested
Elk - ??, ??

lins - ??, interested
sunrise - active, interested
munro - very active, ??
dsp - active, interested
broker - active, interested
regoarrarr - very active, interested

As I see it people in the top group are currently the people to avoid getting involved with right now and 3 out of 4 are in our current alliance block. Allying with somebody not that keen to continue would probably be a mistake.

It'd certainly be nice to be in good standing with lins and sunrise as they're not too much of a threat as it stands but good active players. Munro as well (believe I'll come up with a proposal for his peace deal to help foster that). dsp and broker would make good researchers but they're a ways away. regoarrarr is perhaps too much of a threat that we don't want to in any way help him up further, could have been different if the attack against him had worked.

[Krill]

I think that's partly down to him thinking he'll never hold it against us, though. If we get him as a vaguely happy neighbour with a long NAP...