[SPOILERS] NHs rise to number 4

[Serdoa]

You clearly missed a conversation I had with Seven recently.

[Gaspar]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, since we oddly skipped from 46 to 48 in PBEM numbering.

[mackoti]

To bad that pbem ended like that , but i realy hate it (the pbem) . i lost colosus by 1 turn and juadism becasue of turn order.I would have kept playing but i felt is a too big disvantage to play in those condition(loosing a city cause a bug).Sorry Serdoa if i took i win from you,but you must admit long term seven had way better leader then any of us and he played beter then novice since then so yeah i think was between you mostly so play a duel and sort the winner , i will hapily conced that game to the duel winner.

[Serdoa]

No, no, you certainly didn't take a win from me (and my last posts were meant jokingly, not to be taken serious in any way). That game was far from decided even in the slightest. I don't think any of us really had enough of a lead to be declared winner even by a long stretch. Certainly Seven had the better leader for late game, but than who knows what my troops near him had done if you guys had gone to war. I did have a few in stock for exactly that type of situation. Or if Gaspar had decided to go and try to kill someone. Naval strikes also a possibility for several of us and it would have gotten worse with time. I think we two would soon have shared a border as well. So, no, really I don't think that anything was taken from me. Quite the opposite, I learned quite a few things with that game.

(Also I think there is no question that Seven is the better player compared to me. Simply seeing him calculating the value of traits - even if I don't agree with them all the time - is showing me quite clearly that he understands the game on many parts much more deeply than I most likely ever will.)

[Gaspar]

That game would have been decided by which of Serdoa and novice ate me faster. I think we all know how that would have played out...

[NobleHelium]

Okay, I've simmed pretty thoroughly and I think directly growing to size 3 on a warrior and then into worker > settler is the way to go. Doing the stop and go growth gets us the second worker and the second warrior sooner, but then we end up with too many worker turns and the settler gets delayed too much.

Let's compare the sims at t30...

Direct Size 3:


Stop & Go Size 4:


More tech with the latter on the specified turn, but the workers are doing busywork for 6t basically while waiting for the settler. The second one also gets another warrior, but I don't think that's really important at this point in the sim.

[NobleHelium]

Okay I'm going to play the turn because the micro for t13 and t15 are interchangeable in the stop and go plan anyway.

[NobleHelium]

Turn 13

Started Pottery.



No seafood to orphan in the south, so the 1N of rice location should be set. It looks like we could possibly plant SW of the incense to lighthouse everything else instead of using two other cities. Still depends on what else is there in the west of course.



Looks like yuris teched Mining (8t, 2k power). I guess Krill ran halfway across the map so that he could tech that instead of AH first? Or Fishing as Gaspar surmises.

[Serdoa]

Stop and Go to 3 would get the 2nd worker 2 turns earlier but the settler a turn later. Don't think that is worth it, especially as the two worker turns would most likely be spent on (unnecessary) roads. I have to say, I really like RB-Mod for the change to give Pastures to Hunting. Starts with pasture-resources are just so far behind on BW (and therefore Slavery), it is a shame.

Anyhow, I think your plan is good Noble. Next step would be to get that third city up asap. I tried with having the second city produce a worker till the pasture on the sheep is done, grow to 2, switch back to the worker and whip it the first possible moment. That also frees the two existing workers to go improve the third city as the second city can be further improved by the produced worker. As it is back to 1 that worker can by its own improve the rice in time I'd guess. So maybe have the capital go directly into another settler after the first and whip that one when BW comes in?

[NobleHelium]

Pastures to Hunting is a pretty good change, yes. Maybe make that change and then give the extra scout move to Mysticism? You can say that the scout gets it from divine intervention or something.

Right now I have the second city growing to size 4 on a warrior. (A worker can then be whipped at size 4.) Both workers actually improve the sheep and then the rice before roading the rice and coming back up to finish the overlapped grass cottage between the cities. The capital grows to size 5 on a warrior (second one overall) and then 2-whips a settler, swapping into Slavery after we get BW. After the settler whip I finish another warrior immediately via overflow and then go into a granary to be whipped at size 4. This is getting a bit ahead of ourselves though because copper may change things completely.

Situation on t45 as described above: