[SPOILERS] Margarita and the Lurkers

[Catwalk]

I would suggest sending this to suttree:

Thank you for the comprehensive explanation about the details of an espionage economy, that is useful information. We are interested in entering such an agreement, but at the same time we are also somewhat concerning about your potential to be a runaway. We will not in any way break our NAP with you, but we also hesitate to help you build a further lead over everyone else. The way we see it, we are all in it to win and not settle for second place. Given that you're the clear game leader, that means we're going to be a little bit harder to haggle with. Catwalk advises me that he once lost a game where he was allied to the game leader, and there's a risk of the same thing happening here. That said, we are interested in mutual cooperation if the benefits to us are big enough. We are interested in buying techs from you for 30% of the raw cost minus the EP cost. This will still help you build a lead (you pay nothing for this arrangement), and we will have some chance of keeping pace with you rather than invetiably falling behind your impressive economy.

As for DMOC, maybe this:

We share your concerns about the runaways. We are not at liberty to say much, but we are very interested in mutual cooperation that gives us both a chance at winning rather than handing them the victory already.

Feel free to revise as much as you want to, or go with something completely different.

[B4ndit]

Reply from Yuufo:

I think the most profitable agreement for both of us would be that we tech with 100% slider value. You invest enough gold to supply us, and espionage points to steal, and the remaining gold you make is split evenly between us.
Since our economies are about the same size this should be relatively fair.

Very long NAP goes without saying, since we'll be extremely tied to each other I would even recommend an infinite NAP.

About spies : it is fair that for every two lost spies we gift you one.

[B4ndit]

I don't think that's a good deal for us. I would rather buy from him some specified techs instead of working such a deal. Buy maybe I am wrong? This would allow us tech twice the normal speed as long as we have both comparable economics.

[B4ndit]

I had quick chat with Bison (Yuufo's teammate). He said, that they have 200 science per turn with 0 gold per turn. If he told us the truth, he has stronger economy then us. We can make 130 science per turn with +10gpt and 160 science per turn with -15 gold per turn.

He is considering pacifism -> nationalism as next techs. If so, maybe we should agree on Yuufo's proposal?

BTW, we will finally have our first fast worker next turn

[Catwalk]

I'm not sure about the specific deal, but a long NAP with a player that isn't leading can be a good idea. I think we'll outpace him (as long as we don't screw ourselves on this deal), so I think that part is fine. Not sure about that particular deal, though.

[B4ndit]

Generally speaking, Yuufos proposal:

- he is teching at 100%
- we are paying for both our maintenance
- we produce enough espionage to cover our stealing
- our surplus gold is evenly split between us

It is almost as we would combine our economies together - we both have same gpt and same tech pace.

[Catwalk]

It's a very arbitrary deal, hard to figure out who it favours.

[B4ndit]

My main concern is that he is technologically backwards at the moment compared to us. We have more techs.

After ~10 turns of our takeover here is status report.

1. Founded new city in the far north ( http://i.imgur.com/7UuR3hp.jpg ). It went immediately for Moai Statue (it will be done in 20-30 turns without whip, but in 5 turns it will start working clams so early whip will be possible! ). Our GNP has fallen only by 2 gold thanks two TGL.
2. Capital finished Temple Of Artemis. Combined with moving citizens from hammers tiles back to commerce it has boosted our research to 180 science per turn with -7 gpt. Capital will probably produce one or two more settlers.
3. Overview:
Demographics

GNP graph

Production graph

Cities overview:

Good things:
- finished forges bumped our production significantly, we have outpaced Yuufo
- GNP is going up!
- every city has enough improved tiles to work them
- our southern cities are starting to contribute to our economy!
Bad things:
- We are falling behind with GNP. Suttree is way way ahead us, that's my main concern. But with our production In next ten turns courthouses/marketplaces should improve this situation.
- Yuufo has completed courthouses everywhere, which boosted his GNP and espionage.

BIG Things:
- Rome declared war on DT and DT immediately lost two (or three) cities! Yossarian and DMOC joined this war and both declared war on Rome. DT's power washuge, so I think he should hold on...

Question: what to do next? I'm researching toward longbowmans. I want cheap garrison unit, since macemans are pretty useless to us at the moment and they are expensive. But what later? I have researched Monarchy and I'm thinking about going for Iron Working (required to chop jungles on the north). Later maybe construction and -> gunpowder?

I'm still not entirely sure that settling between DT and classical_hero is good option for us. I'm tempted to go for DT after t150. Maybe a little bit later with our Janissary UU. Other option is to go for classical_hero, but when I was transferring my spy through suttree territory, I have spotted multiple his catapults heading south. My best guess is that he is preparing for war. What do you think?

[Catwalk]

I've logged in to have a look. Changed a few things around in cities:
- Granary instead of Moai in Istanbul
- Work capital corn instead of spices in Lodzo
- Forges are only important if you need the happiness IMO, they're something to grow on for now except in the biggest cities
- Whip missionary in Dantis and let Istanbul work GH mine
- Don't whip granary with less than 50% food in the box (ask if you don't know why)
- Copper mine in Bialograd is bad, working coast instead
- Same with coast instead of PH mine in Krakovo
- Whip settler in Stetinum next turn (I may have changed this one to a galley, should be settler)
- Get failgold on Moai every turn, especially in towns with a religion (ask if you don't know why or what I mean)
- suttree is in GA, don't worry too much about his demos

I disagree with war for sake of war. Those players are not a threat to you, you should declare war on them if you want/need their lands. You don't need more lands in the foreseeable future, war would be a big setback for you. There's still vast potential for peaceful development, making war a losing proposition.

I wouldn't have picked Feudalism, but you're 40% done on it already. Focus 100% on economy, you have the NAPs you need.

I'll try to think about the deal with Yuufo tonight. Did suttree get back to you about our 30% offer?

[B4ndit]

What do you mean with failgold? Constructing Moai everywhere for hammers to gold?

B4ndit,

We have secured a world map from another team, so there is no need to trade maps unless you want to. I feel less bad about the horse tile after seeing your border with the Carebears - that's a little sketchy!

There is a long history to our shared border - we initially thought a fair division would involve us controlling the horse in the north and Maga the floodplains in the south. She thought differently - so this is what we landed up with

We're glad to hear that you're in this to win - this makes us good allies. We both understand the importance of working together in the short term so that we both can have a better chance at securing a victory condition in the long term.

You're right that our current golden age has pushed us ahead temporarily due to an inflated tech rate and bulbing. So we agree that our espionage agreement should be in your favour - 30% of the difference between the raw cost and the EP cost sounds fair. Remember that you will receive the full benefit of EP's from your palace/courthouses and from the discount provided by your gold multiplier.

Every tech you receive from us will put you ahead of all the other teams and, so long as you continue to grow your economy, will push you to tech equity with our team. As our circumstances equalize, perhaps we can revisit the agreement.

I like this arrangement because it leaves the choice to you - if your spies see that it is significantly cheaper to research a tech with EP's than with beakers you can take a screen shot and, after the mission is successful, we can work things out. Both of us have incentive to participate and it provides a framework for you to profit from your espionage investment while preserving our peaceful border.

Be well,

So they agreed on your proposal

If we agree on this, what should I do? Move sliders for full espionage + gold and zero science? This would also mean, that libraries are almost useless from now, and Courthouses are more important?