[SPOILERS] Margarita and the Lurkers

[Catwalk]

I mean until you're ready to commit to Moai somewhere (a size 1 city is a very bad place for it, you want a developed city) you should always have one city putting hammers into it. Preferrably a religious city. That way you get 2.25 gold for each hammer, a very good conversion rate.

How many EP do we get per turn, and how much would it cost to steal from suttree? Give me a few examples of EP cost for specific techs, so we can plan. Also calculate how much gold we'd have to pay for it. I wouldn't be in a hurry to cancel our own research, but yeah we need to figure out what long-term implications this has for us. We might want to produce another great spy in the GW city.

[B4ndit]

We have 10 EP per turn. I don't know how much would it cost comparing to the research. Do you know how to check it? I would have to move in my spy to suttree's city and leave it there stationary.

We will have next great spy in 22 turns in GW city.

[Catwalk]

I think you'd be able to calculate it based on the instructions and screenshot suttree sent you. I'm afraid I know very little about it myself.

[B4ndit]

Bad news. DT informed me that classical_hero has settled a new city on the south. Unfortunately I don't know where exactly, but on his position I would settle right where we were heading. Should this change my plans? My settler was heading towards towards southern marble filler and I can settle it in 2 turns. I will have two more settlers ready also in 2 turns. This marble filler might be a little bit pointless on it's own if classical_hero indeed has taken this better spot further south :/ In that case, it's only value could be as a "jumping" point for future invasions or as a border "buffering" city.

In the mean time I have prolonged NAP with Yuufo/Bisons up to 160t and go another fast worker. DMOC is trying to mount coalition against suttree, he tried to convince to cancel my trade deals with suttree (which I can not do because incense for silk is for "NAP duration"). Arkepilar is worried about suttree's possible invasion and I guess was trying to talk me into some defensive pact.

Another news, I have seen 2 or 3 suttree's catapults heading south. Is he planing to invade classical_hero? Seems likely...

What technology should I discover next? Guilds for grocers? After that heading for universities?

[Catwalk]

How about trying to extort classical_hero into giving you that city for a small amount of cash? Especially if suttree is sending military units his way. Do you have any means of finding out what its location is? I still think the marble filler is okay, all coastal fillers are okay really.

Staying neutral in the whole suttree vs world matter is the right play here. It's also a boring one, but it's in your own best interests. Besides, our hands are tied. Keep focusing heavily on growing your underdeveloped economy. Build a grass farm or two in cities with very little food.

[B4ndit]

Ok, I will settle this marble anyway and I will try to find out what has happened on the south. I have asked DT about this city location but he hasn't responded yet.

Buying it of from classical_hero is an interesting option Maybe maceman which is heading there can be used as some incentive. What would be your offer for a such city? Maybe that maceman?

[Catwalk]

Do we have a NAP with him? Offer a 20t NAP or so and a small amount of gold, say 50. Make it clear that you have strong interests in the area, and that future cooperation will be difficult if you're blocked there. Try to word it politely so he doesn't get pissed off and refuses because he doesn't like you. Maybe start out with small threats and then point out later that you're willing to buy it. *IF* it's in the right location!

[B4ndit]

Good news: I haven't spotted classical_hero's city yet. On next turn my diplomatic mission will be able to see any incoming settlers.

I have also checked stealing costs from suttree. They are quite big. Without stationary spies stealing technology would cost us more EP then researching such tech on our own.

Yuufo will have paper next turn. I'm trying to negotiate buying paper from him on the same rules as with suttree.

[Catwalk]

Make sure to include the stationary discount, I hear it's pretty big. How many RP will you get from a great spy in this arrangement?

[B4ndit]

RP? Research points? I don't know... With stationary spy I guess I could steal Mediation (currently 128 science cost for us) for 77 EP, whith 80% chances of success would mean Expected Value EP costs for stealing this tech ~100 EP.

Quick math (geometric series):

77+0.2*(77+0.2*(77+...) ) =
77 + 77* 0.2^1 + 77 * 0.2^2 + ... 77 * 0.2^n =
77 * (1-0.2^n) / (1-0.2) ~= 97

Plus hammers for spies. So I would say ignoring hammers for spies 1 EP ~ 1 RP. For Yuufo this deal would be a little bit better, because one of his cities already has a buddism. I'll check it later...