Pitboss 18 Organizing Thread (RB Mod 34 Civs)

[Krill]

FWIW, if the map is any tighter than PB13 I'm out right away.

This game won't fly with such an inflexibility. Nevertheless I really would like to see you play and would therefore agree to this assuming we won't lose more than 1 other player because of giving in to your demands.

btw. PB13 had lot of diffrentiation. My closest capital was over double the distance from some of the distances of some other nations.

Sorry Plako, but after PB15 I'm actually a bit twitchy about tight maps. A lot of those settings aren't what I imagined this game using either, but I could deal with them. I agree that PB13 has a lot of differentiation, however on a toroidal map that's less of an issue IMO. I think that the majority of the people still signed up want a tight map though, so it makes more sense to stay with that.

(As an aside I do not think you should have simply copy/pasted a signup list and then proceed to qualify the settings. Give people a chance to confirm signups rather than assume them.)

[dtay]

I at least would prefer a PB13-like player density as well, re: "what the other players want".

[WilliamLP]

I at least would prefer a PB13-like player density as well, re: "what the other players want".

Like Plako alluded to, whose PB13-like player density do you want? There are a few of us for whom the idea of a tighter game than PB13 is the stuff of nightmares.

[plako]

Sorry Plako, but after PB15 I'm actually a bit twitchy about tight maps. A lot of those settings aren't what I imagined this game using either, but I could deal with them. I agree that PB13 has a lot of differentiation, however on a toroidal map that's less of an issue IMO. I think that the majority of the people still signed up want a tight map though, so it makes more sense to stay with that.

(As an aside I do not think you should have simply copy/pasted a signup list and then proceed to qualify the settings. Give people a chance to confirm signups rather than assume them.)

Resignation is as easy to post as sign-up. Also what other setting you don't like? I would have suspected you to comment these right after I posted them in this thread.

[Krill]

More than anything it's the map, but that's not really a problem because I trust Commodore. But what Commodore said he wanted to do isn't the same as what you listed.

Okay, looking at this a bit; I think I'd like to make something 128x128, toroidal but otherwise "real world looking" (so no PB16 parkland-only), aiming at ~220 land tiles per person. It would be continentalish; I would set myself on fire before straining something like PB3 from my loins. If Krill could give me a mod to get started?

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid458537

My personal wants aren't relevant here, but this would sound like something I'd enjoy.

Map will be done by Commodore and current guidance to him is this: Lakes or Continents type of map. Roughly balanced, but having some differentiation from player to player. A bit less breathing room than in standard RB games.

This is fine other than the bolded bit. I just ran one of the final drafts of the PB13 map through novices map balance tool to check the number of tiles per player. I won't divulge the exact numbers, but the variation goes from close to PB15 crampedness to well over 200 tiles per person.

I've already explained that for 34 players the full 124*124 map, if well designed, can't give more than this anyway, in fact it would actually give less than the top end seen in PB13. My largest fear (and I think some other people may have this as well) is that the bolded statement is unduly vague and leads to unrealised expectations: I don't want to sign up for a game that has 150 tiles per player, or that others want to sign up for a game that has 250 tiles per player.

Sometimes it's hard to grasp the size of empires, so it might just be best to state a number here (in agreement with Commodore IMO), rather than the previous statement.

[dtay]

I at least would prefer a PB13-like player density as well, re: "what the other players want".

Like Plako alluded to, whose PB13-like player density do you want? There are a few of us for whom the idea of a tighter game than PB13 is the stuff of nightmares.

I mean the density of my continent or the Scooter/Commodore/Bigger one. Your triangle... not sure if there's much tighter than that besides OOC.

[scooter]

Just a comment from a non-player but interested party: if you're signing up for a 34 person game and expecting lots of room to build your sandcastles, you're probably signing up for the wrong game. I don't doubt that Commodore will do a good job of trying to space people in the vein of something fairly reasonable, I'm just saying that you have to be realistic, and realistic is that some people will be tighter than others, and some people will move their starting settler 4 spaces closer to you for no good reason at all. That's what 13 was - some were quite cramped, some had lots of space, and I expect this will be similar. This is a "just play and deal with it" game. IMO those are super fun, but I think you do have to have the right mindset here or the game won't really work for you.

[Krill]

Just a comment from a non-player but interested party: if you're signing up for a 34 person game and expecting lots of room to build your sandcastles, you're probably signing up for the wrong game. I don't doubt that Commodore will do a good job of trying to space people in the vein of something fairly reasonable, I'm just saying that you have to be realistic, and realistic is that some people will be tighter than others, and some people will move their starting settler 4 spaces closer to you for no good reason at all. That's what 13 was - some were quite cramped, some had lots of space, and I expect this will be similar. This is a "just play and deal with it" game. IMO those are super fun, but I think you do have to have the right mindset here or the game won't really work for you.

I doubt people want to play on a map where warrior rushes are the strategy of choice. If they do then I know I won't be playing because you're right, it will not work for me.

[scooter]

Just a comment from a non-player but interested party: if you're signing up for a 34 person game and expecting lots of room to build your sandcastles, you're probably signing up for the wrong game. I don't doubt that Commodore will do a good job of trying to space people in the vein of something fairly reasonable, I'm just saying that you have to be realistic, and realistic is that some people will be tighter than others, and some people will move their starting settler 4 spaces closer to you for no good reason at all. That's what 13 was - some were quite cramped, some had lots of space, and I expect this will be similar. This is a "just play and deal with it" game. IMO those are super fun, but I think you do have to have the right mindset here or the game won't really work for you.

I doubt people want to play on a map where warrior rushes are the strategy of choice. If they do then I know I won't be playing because you're right, it will not work for me.

That is very, very clearly not at all what I said.

[Krill]

Just a comment from a non-player but interested party: if you're signing up for a 34 person game and expecting lots of room to build your sandcastles, you're probably signing up for the wrong game. I don't doubt that Commodore will do a good job of trying to space people in the vein of something fairly reasonable, I'm just saying that you have to be realistic, and realistic is that some people will be tighter than others, and some people will move their starting settler 4 spaces closer to you for no good reason at all. That's what 13 was - some were quite cramped, some had lots of space, and I expect this will be similar. This is a "just play and deal with it" game. IMO those are super fun, but I think you do have to have the right mindset here or the game won't really work for you.

I doubt people want to play on a map where warrior rushes are the strategy of choice. If they do then I know I won't be playing because you're right, it will not work for me.

That is very, very clearly not at all what I said.

You know that PB15 was the same "density" as some of the starts in PB13? Dropping the average size of the player areas by 30 tiles from PB13 sizes gives the same areas as those in PB15, where warrior rushes did happen.