RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Speaker and Sullla

[Sullla]

I'm sorry about that Speaker, but we do have Open Borders with Dantski, and an NAP, and good relations. At some point, you do have to trust your neighbors not to screw you over. Losing a citizen in Gettysburg really stinks, even if it's the right call. Yes, I should have moved the workers a tile west, but we're not playing this Always War either.

For whatever reason we're not getting any trade route income with Dantski (I don't know why), so I believe that we do have to finish a road towards his team.

Nothing super-important happened this turn, and I feel too tired to do more typing, so I'm just going to send off the proposed emails and call it a night for Civ purposes.

EDIT: Also sent this to regoarrarr's distress call:

Dear regoarrarr and Team Byzantium,

We'd really like to do something to help your team resist the Ottomans - honestly, we would - but there's very little we can do at the moment. All of our units are needed for local defense at the moment, and even when we can spare a spearman to help you out, our territory is about 20 tiles away from your capital. By the time our units could walk that far, I expect the conflict would be all but finished.

If one of us can defog the sea passage between our territory, we could then potentially trade you copper and allow your team to whip spears, which in all honesty would likely be vastly more effective than trying to walk them from our territory. Also, have you considered talking to Jowy? He's close enough that a sea route would be much easier to establish than with us.

I'm sorry that we can't be more helpful. It's really tough in the pre-1000BC period.

Sullla
The Killer Angels

About all we can say really. We're not in a position to intervene at the moment.

[Sandover]

For whatever reason we're not getting any trade route income with Dantski (I don't know why), so I believe that we do have to finish a road towards his team.

The trade route icon shows up when resource trades are enabled, which only requires one of the two civs to have a viable trade route connection (in this case it must be Dantski, since you don't get the foreign trade routes). Since there is no road connection between your civs, I'm assuming the cause for this to be that you, unlike Dantski, lack the sailing tech, and that his trade connection is naval based.

Edit: thought I might as well point out for clarification that routes along rivers are "naval based".

[Krill]

Do you guys have Sailing?

EDIT: would help to read the last page...

[Speaker]

I'm sorry about that Speaker, but we do have Open Borders with Dantski, and an NAP, and good relations. At some point, you do have to trust your neighbors not to screw you over. Losing a citizen in Gettysburg really stinks, even if it's the right call. Yes, I should have moved the workers a tile west, but we're not playing this Always War either.

I trust him, but I'd still not rather dangle 2 tasty workers in front of him, with no way to get them back. If he decided to violate our trust, we be forced to shift completely to war mode, which would be difficult to accomplish much more than pillaging him, since he has Skirmishers.

Do you guys have Sailing?

EDIT: would help to read the last page...

No sailing or Fishing, though Dantski has them both, ostensibly.

[Jabah]

From what is posted above, il looks like Dantski must have sailing and you don't.
Nice to see that you offer him foreign trade without having any benefits.
Did I see a tiny play error there :neenernee
(or was it deliberate to show your good nature to Dantski or trick him to believe you do have Sailing)

[Speaker]

From what is posted above, il looks like Dantski must have sailing and you don't.
Nice to see that you offer him foreign trade without having any benefits.
Did I see a tiny play error there :neenernee
(or was it deliberate to show your good nature to Dantski or trick him to believe you do have Sailing)

We have made quite a few mistakes so far actually, but this isn't one of them.

I would say that Dantski's "benefit" is going to be a net negative for quite a while. It takes a long time for 3 or 4 extra beakers per turn from foreign trade routes to pay for the Sailing tech. We, of course, gained the goodwill of a NAP and open borders, for a "price" of 3 or 4 gpt, which we don't even have to pay. And hopefully that saved us our 2 workers.

Though I have learned something here. I assumed that Sailing and later Astronomy opened up two-way trade routes, since resources could be traded both ways, but I guess not for the commerce-generating aspect of trade routes. Shows how much experience I have with that part of trade routes, which is not a big part of multiplayer.

I do know, however, that we should try and put a city on the little island off our coast as soon as possible. That should give us some of the more lucrative intercontinental trade routes, though I have no idea how many cities will benefit from that, or how the commerce generated from trade routes is actually calculated, if someone would like to enlighten me....

EDIT- As I type that we have Open Borders, I would like to apologize for being a bit too harsh on Sullla. I forgot that we had agreed on Open Borders with Dantski in game, making the worker position 100x less dangerous. Not only does Dantski have to weigh the value of his reputation, plus a 50/50 battle, but also weigh the value of the 2 workers versus all the map and scouting information he can get with that warrior. So there's pretty much no chance he breaks his word.

[novice]

I believe all your cities can have a domestic trade route to the same city, so all your cities would get an intercontinental trade route if you settle the island. As for international trade routes, only one of your cities can have a trade route to a given foreign city, so when you have many cities it becomes important to get open borders with many nations.

Another game mechanic question: Does open borders give 10 turns unbreakable peace?

Edit: You must be doing well when lurkers are taunting you for your mistakes

[Swiss Pauli]

I do know, however, that we should try and put a city on the little island off our coast as soon as possible. That should give us some of the more lucrative intercontinental trade routes, though I have no idea how many cities will benefit from that, or how the commerce generated from trade routes is actually calculated, if someone would like to enlighten me.....

IIRC cities get trade routes with the biggest yielding city. Nationally, you have multiple trade routes with the same city, but not internationally. Mouse-over reveals the compostion of trade-route yield.

EDIT: ninja'd again

[Sullla]

Well it was still a mistake, Speaker, and you were right to call me out on it. There was no reason not to put that road south instead of southeast like I did. This is the one flaw of typing plans up ahead of time: you can become too wedded to them, and not adjust as circumstances develop. I'll do my best not to make the same mistakes again!

I'm going to try and revise the whole micro plan later today, based on the greater information we have going now. (I'm in a good mood because my Final Fantasy 5 solo Thief got past the biggest stumbling block in the game last night, winning a 2-hour battle against Byblos! )

Here are the diplo responses we received since yesterday:

Whosit

Dear Sullla and Speaker of the Killer Angels,

Thank you for the congratulations. I noticed that the Killer Angels have not slouched off on the expansion front, either, with four cities of your own. Most civilizations seem to be at three cities at the moment, though I expect the average number of cities will not climb greatly until new technological advances are discovered to offset the high maintenance fees. Of course, those with the Financial trait might have an easier time of it, yes?

I will do my level best to maintain a score lead, but considering the rapid gains your civilization made earlier, I may have to settle for making you work for first place. For now, at any rate. I am sure that this contest will not be a dull one.

Best regards,
Whosit, Galactic Emperor

Look at that, we learned a minor tidbit from Whosit: he's not planning on founding any more cities for a little while. Of course, we probably could have inferred that anyway from him founding 2 cities in 2 turns, but more info is always good!

regoarrarr:

Sullla,

Don't worry about it - we knew it was a longshot. I'm sure that you have lots of MP needs what with ALL YOUR CITIES!!! :-P

We have sent some feelers out to Jowy, as well as IKZ - still waiting on a response (though we just sent Jowy's this morning). If you could send anything to Jowy encouraging him to work with us (we have offered land / other concessions in exchange for a few turns of metal), that would be great. Anything to convince him that working with us / propping us up is in his best interests. That is, if you think that it IS in his best interests. I'm sure it's in OUR best interests :-)

Also, have you seen any iron near our lands (we do not yet have IW and are not sure if you do or not)

dan.
regoarrarr
Byzantium

I actually think we should encourage Jowy to send over some metals: if possible, it would prop up sunrise, lengthen the war, give Jowy more expansion room in the east, and (best of all) athlete would see the resource trade on the F4 screen and get angry at Jowy, not us! Heh. Will see about sending off a message along those lines later.

athlete/kalin:

Dear Angels,
Thanks for the reminder on the EP points, we'll adjust them
accordingly next turn (I think) when we'll also reach 43.

> It sounds like your war is going pretty well at the moment. How long do you think that sunrise can hold out in his capital? Good luck,

The war is going fine, but not spectacular. It will be hard to take
the Byzantine capital, so unfortunately the war may take a while.

Kalin for Team A/K of the Ottomans

Anyone else amused by us being called "Angels"?

[dazedroyalty]

Anyone else amused by us being called "Angels"?

It's not quite as ferocious sounding as being called, "Killers," is it? But hey, biblically angels were actually pretty intimidating (first response was always fear), so it's not all bad.