[spoilers] Comm-ny-Sudragh

[spacetyrantxenu]

Gauntlet:Thrown
Challenge:________?

I'd watch that match. My money is on Rego somehow ending up disappointed, possibly at the very last possible moment.

[Krill]

Accepted.

[Commodore]

Holy crap.

The long awaited Civ/Leader combos:

Peter of Germany
Isabella of England
Ragnar of Portugal
Victoria of China
Justinian of Vikings
Frederick of Egypt
Charlemagne of India
Ramesses of Ottomans
Catherine of Ethiopia
Roosevelt of Rome
Hannibal of France

You asked for 10, I gave you 11. Live with it.

What the hell are Victoria of China and Hannibal of France doing in that mess?

[Commodore]

MAD LIB TIME FOLKS!

Furiously typed thoughts on the combos:

Peter of Germany *-Hey Pete! You used to be All That, now nobody picks you. I'm actually not really sure what's happened with Peter the Great...sure, Pericles and Gandhi gain a little more synergy in boosting Philosophical, but Expansive is clearly better than Spiritual, and usually better than Creative at that. I certainly have wished often enough I've had Pete of Babylon over Rammer of Rome. Anyhow, Germany is pretty much a null...I guess if we do make it to Assembly Line, I'd be delighted to have cheaper factories, but when has that ever really mattered? The techs can be good. The color is excellent. The tanks...yeah, that's enough...

Isabella of England-Hello, Locke and Cervantes' number 1 selection! Yeah no, sorry, done this gal before. This is actually the third or second strongest combo in a vacuum, but if I need those techs...

Ragnar of Portugal *-I don't always start with a work boat, but when I do, I like Fishing/Mining civs with a Financial leader. Basically, the very limited cases where it makes sense to start with a work boat are high-hammer starts with fish, not clams/crabs. Going Bronze Working off the bat is pretty big in those cases. The Financial bit is obvious; why not get more commerce off of your coastal start? So this here, despite the civ being a recent repeat, is definitely a candidate pick. Fin Portugal is great for those late-game tiles, and a smaller map makes Aggressive worth more than usual. I might even make a carrack or two! (But probably not). This is only in the pool for a fish start, though. It's first for that, though, for all that England and Rome get somewhat better leaders and uniques.

Victoria of China-Yeah this is the outlier. By like, a lot. I guess by my resolution to take something good, I should do nothing but spam VICKY CHINA VICKY CHINA VICKY CHINA, but I'd done Vicky twice and while I enjoy the old girl, she's starting to smell a bit musty. Please THH take her please please please...

Justinian of Vikings-He is definitely a leader with a civilization. I will definitely grant both of those things are true.

Frederick of Egypt *-In a smaller map, Philosophical and bulbing become commensurately more powerful. On a tight toroid, Organized is pretty awesome for the economy, and coasts-near-lakes are around enough to make lighthouses a big perk. Egypt is just excellent; war chariots make for a very secure ancient era and still work in classic. Obelisks aren't something you spam, but paired with Philosophical the lucrative Theology->CoL->CS path becomes practical. Plus, Agriculture and the Wheel for starting techs; hard to go wrong there. All in all, despite the very real hazard of Frederick's slow speed, I think this is my go-to grain start pick.

Charlemagne of India *-Oh my goodness, this is hilarious. On a smallish map Imp is a weird trait; on the one hand, the total hammer savings is going to be less than impressive with, at best in an ICS grid, something like 15 cities. However, the landgrab is pretty much vital, and damn his useless hide, Charlemagne can landgrab. He'd still be a ridiculous joke, paired with anything other than India. But talk about some invaluable game-changing unique unit! Fast workers are their own economic trait, easily pushing towards a Stonehenge lock, while also probably the strongest military asset available as well. Combat fast workers are just brutal. It might be is stupid, but I think as negligible as the leader is, I have to place this combo in my pick list before seeing starts.

Ramesses of Ottomans-Hey, it's leader I'm playing of Dull McDullciv! Not my cup of tea but valid enough I suppose.

Catherine of Ethiopia *-Of course, another combination I've lately been wistful about is this one right here. And you see here is where I begin to have a problem with this list. Hannibal and Victoria are an order of magnitude better than Catherine; it just doesn't even come close. And they own far far better civilizations than Ethiopia, too. Those two are just grossly out of balance. And yet, if I get a start that favors Hunting/Mining, I'd rather pick Miss Interesting here. She's certainly got some good stuff...landgrabbing just doesn't get better than with The Czarina, Steles are for culture wars not popping borders anyway, and the oromo just looks damn cool. But...can I really forgive myself for picking this girl if Victoria of Freaking China is on the table?

Roosevelt of Rome-Repeat trait, dull trait, repeat civ. Again, not my cup of tea, but he is definitely a good choice, particularly for a later guy to ensure solo IND.

Hannibal of France-Okay, upon further reflection, he's a bit closer to the rest of the pack than Vicky. I guess if Agri/Wheel is called for and I miss Egypt I would consider him?

[Ceiliazul]

What order is the pick? :lazy:

[Gawdzak]

Your start:

[Commodore]

What order is the pick? :lazy:

THH
Ichabod
me
Pin
Dazed

Which is great; I'd rather THH get Vicky, he is the least experienced player here.

[Commodore]

Your start:

Okay, we can roll with this...

First of all, THANK GOODNESS, this is a bad India start. Animal Husbandry is two techs away, and a fast worker isn't amazing at first. I was going to be tempted by India even as crap as Charlie is.

So my choice is between:

PETER OF GERMANY
-Expansive does indeed get a bonus on the worker, so that's a turn saved. And no commerce lost; neither food tiles are riverside.
-Germany's Mining/Hunting techs work fine for AH->BW, although Pottery takes a while.
-Philosophical is good here, expansive is expansive yo.
-The Wheel isn't needed fully to connect a first city along the river sharing pigs.


CATHERINE OF ETHIOPIA
-Imperialistic loves the choppy/whippy goodness resulting here.
-Techs set up very very well, even better.


FREDRICK OF EGYPT
-Agri/Wheel, duh
-Not really slower than Hannibal...

[Commodore]

Thanks for all this by the way, Gawdzak. I appreciate how much effort all this is!

For what it's worth, I would have probably just swapped China with Germany and Vikings with India, then dumped the latter resultant turd. But that's just me.

I really really really really really hope Ichabod takes Hannibal; I'm going to have a terrible time convincing myself not to take him of France if it makes it down to me, dry as that is.

[spacetyrantxenu]

All I'm reading here is a gigantic head fake. It's Charlie of Fast Workers, isn't it. Isn't it??