[NO PLAYERS] Mapmaking, Boasting, and Wild Speculation Thread

[SevenSpirits]

If anyone else had picked Charlemagne I would count them out of the running immediately. But Commodore might have a shot.

Ignoring player skill, I'd rank their starts like this:

Izzy of England Fish/Corn
Hannibal of France Corn/Deer
Vicky of China Fish/Deer (aside: not having fishing is going to hurt this start)
Frederick of Egypt Don't/Remember (aside: they are talking about putting it on noble now, which is a nerf to both these traits)
...
Charlie of India Pig/Sheep (this is sooooo bad)

[SevenSpirits]

What am I missing, what does ToW have to do with anything?

It doesn't, I was referring to the map for a certain ToW game...

Oh, I see.

Btw Krill you shouldn't give someone double AH food in RtR games either. In fact it's even worse there because AH unlocks fewer food tiles outside your capital, plus you need hunting too if you want the horses you reveal to be useful. In general, I would say that requiring people to spend significantly different numbers of beakers to unlock their (similar quantities of) starting food is not a good idea.

The AH food thing is a problem we were left with from BTS, that I blame on the makers of the game not realizing how much better is it to go worker/wb first to improve food ASAP compared to any other opening. This mistake means that there aren't enough beakers available compared to foodhammers in the early game, it makes food starting techs too important, and it makes livestock and seafood worse to have in your capital than it should be. (And in RtR, deer.) This is why we often let people see starts before picking, and it's why mapmakers don't value all food equally regardless of tech requirements.

Also FWIW, that's why I made Torusland always give players a first-row-tech-only 5f+ resource. But I mean mapmakers have to judge this themselves. Fish + AH resource is still more of a pain than wet Rice + AH resource.

[Krill]

Well, if you want to be entirely technical with the definitions of AH food and pasture resources, then yes, it would be more correct to rephrase that sentence in terms of the tile improvement that increases the tile yield. So double pasture resources are fine in RtR. That's more an issue with wording than anything else.

[SevenSpirits]

I wasn't trying to make a semantic argument - sorry if I misinterpreted you, Krill. I think it's valuable for mapmakers to understand that it's not pastures that are (potentially) bad, it's food that requires more advanced tech that's (potentially) bad.

[Bobchillingworth]

Haha, it sounds like Team Babylon / Badass is getting back together! Neat

[Krill]

I wasn't trying to make a semantic argument - sorry if I misinterpreted you, Krill. I think it's valuable for mapmakers to understand that it's not pastures that are (potentially) bad, it's food that requires more advanced tech that's (potentially) bad.

Nah, I misspoke the first time. I don't disagree with anything you said; I shouldn't have said AH resources, but rather Pasture resources, and even then I'm not 100% correct.

[Gawdzak]

Worldbuilder save of the final version of the map:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6crxlue2t60zg...BSave?dl=1

[Bobchillingworth]

Are PBEM 61 players allowed to view it?

[Gawdzak]

Are PBEM 61 players allowed to view it?

I don't see why not. You know what map script was used.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

I rather like the capital copper idea, especially with it being under a forest. That's gonna cause a few headaches to their micro plans!