What are the map dimensions again?
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[NO PLAYERS] Mapmaking, Boasting, and Wild Speculation Thread
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(September 15th, 2014, 16:06)Krill Wrote: Do the players know the map is tighter than PB15 ie do they know those dimensions? I did tell them this: (August 27th, 2014, 18:14)Gawdzak Wrote: Map settings: Small sized Full of Resources Lakes Script is by default 40x24. They came into the game knowing that this is a cramped set-up. (August 28th, 2014, 01:49)Krill Wrote: Never give one person double AH food and others something different except in an RtR mod game. Please change it. Just say caught a mistake and will repost relevant starts asap. Players prefer honesty about this. (August 28th, 2014, 03:23)SevenSpirits Wrote: Krill, it's not a big deal, they get to pick after seeing starts and plenty of agriculture civs are available. Others have fishing + agri or fishing + hunting resources, that's just as bad. I think I'm going to point out now that Commodore's double AH food has potentially fucked him if copper is at everyone's capitals...
You mean how Commodore picking a Myst/Mining civ after seeing his double AH food start has potentially fucked him? And his choice to research other unnecessary non-food techs before BW has reduced his access to copper? Everyone else also has to research two techs that aren't mining or BW to hook up their food.
September 15th, 2014, 19:18
(This post was last modified: September 15th, 2014, 19:23 by Krill.)
Hey I did say potentially. I actually think he'll be fine due to travel time, PRO archers and the cheap settlers letting him get a chariot out to murder an invading axe. Charlamage is actually a good leader for what he's done. I think the issue that forcing him to research a 100 base beaker tech to hook for slows him down more than being able to pick Agriculture and research a 40 base beaker tech. The religion play is just a method of capitalising on the Myst start.
In reality, what else was he supposed to do? If he did pick Agri or Hunting he is still slower to BW, like I said before, and it would give others an opportunity to throw axes at him, and in a game where capitals are so close that's not something that can be handwaved away. China was gone so no Mining, leaving Hunting/Mining (Ethiopia), or Agri/Wheel (Egypt/France/Ottoman) where he essentially has some weaker leaders to use. I think the main problem is perhaps better phrased that the availability of copper at the capital increases the power of being able to research BW much earlier. Thinking about it some more, I believe Commodore made the right play, and if he does get those chariots out, plus chops the forests east and south east of the second city, he might break Pindicator if he attempts an axe rush. Can't kill Pin of course, but he could reach for cities before Pin has a second one out.
September 15th, 2014, 19:41
(This post was last modified: September 15th, 2014, 19:41 by SevenSpirits.)
 (September 15th, 2014, 19:18)Krill Wrote: Hey I did say potentially. I actually think he'll be fine due to travel time, PRO archers and the cheap settlers letting him get a chariot out to murder an invading axe. Charlamage is actually a good leader for what he's done. I think the issue that forcing him to research a 100 base beaker tech to hook for slows him down more than being able to pick Agriculture and research a 40 base beaker tech. The religion play is just a method of capitalising on the Myst start. I don't know where you are getting these tech numbers but they are wrong. AH's base cost is only about 1.7x Agriculture's cost, and if you count the 1.2 multiplier that you always get it only costs about 1.4x as much as Agriculture. Quote:In reality, what else was he supposed to do? If he did pick Agri or Hunting he is still slower to BW, like I said before, and it would give others an opportunity to throw axes at him, and in a game where capitals are so close that's not something that can be handwaved away. China was gone so no Mining, leaving Hunting/Mining (Ethiopia), or Agri/Wheel (Egypt/France/Ottoman) where he essentially has some weaker leaders to use. Oh come on, you know very well that Charlemagne of India was a terrible pick. Hannibal of France for example would be so much better. Commodore knows that too, he's doing this to have more fun. About that "opportunity for others to throw axes at him". If he takes an agri/wheel civ he needs to research AH for food and Mining/BW for copper. Compared that to Pindicator's position (with Hannibal of France) where he needs to research Hunting for food and Mining/BW for copper. That's a four turn total difference in time to get BW. Compare also to, let's say, Ichabod's England. Ichabod needs to research Agriculture for food, and while he already has mining he still needs to research the wheel. That's a mere 1t difference in research times. Pindicator Wrote:So where would you settle? What would your strategy be? I guess I'd settle #1A. You'll get the pigs eventually, and it sticks an obstacle in Commodore's way so that he doesn't have easy access to your capital. If you delay for long you'll likely never get cultural control over that area. Try to stuff an axe in there ASAP to prevent Archers from razing it, add a Spear soon too. Then settle the double-corn + copper spot, which is incredibly good. This is the point in the game where Commodore's traits are at their best and yours aren't doing anything for you, so claim what you can, encourage him to turtle up with Archers instead of pressing you further, out-tech him and then come back for revenge with Musketeers or whatever.
I think I'd settle the plains hill fish spot in the south, which gets the pigs from the capital's third ring. It has a bit more riverside too and shares some with the capital. I think that's the strongest spot available, the problem is it doesn't claim any land. I'm not convinced that's necessary with the second city, even on this map. Settle there, get some more map info and if you are screwed for land you'll be in a better position to do something about it.
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