[SPOILER] Cornflakes brings the popcorn

[Cornflakes]

As for axe rushing, it could definitely work but he might be able to get big defense bonuses which would counter your +50% bonus.

PS : I found it, if you have a +x% attacker against a +y% defender you multiply or divide(depending on which of x and y is bigger) the defender strength by (Max(x,y)-Min(x,y)) which means that the 5 strength axe will fight a 6/(1+(sum of modifiers)/100)=6/1.25=4.8 strength vulture.
On the contrary the 6 strength vulture on the attack will fight a 5*1.25=6.25 axeman. If this is not clear I can try to make it clearer.

The mechanics of the Axe vs. Vulture combat are clear, what is not clear to me is why the game developers replace a base unit with a UU that is decidedly worse. Give both of the units C1+Shock and the axe still gets odds! If is was meant to be better than a swordsman then it would have been better to have the vulture replace the swordsman so the Sumer could still build axes.

The axe rush is purely hypothetically speaking. My main concern was in defending against Vultures, and retep would have to cross flat land at some point to get to me.

[AdrienIer]

If both units get the same promos they will get the same odds as without any promos. I'm not sure whether they didn't understand their own combat mechanics (and genuinely thought that Vultures would get 50% odds against axes and better odds against everything else) or if they didn't understand the issue they created with Sumeria only having chariots to defeat axemen.

[GermanJoey]

As for axe rushing, it could definitely work but he might be able to get big defense bonuses which would counter your +50% bonus.

PS : I found it, if you have a +x% attacker against a +y% defender you multiply or divide(depending on which of x and y is bigger) the defender strength by (Max(x,y)-Min(x,y)) which means that the 5 strength axe will fight a 6/(1+(sum of modifiers)/100)=6/1.25=4.8 strength vulture.
On the contrary the 6 strength vulture on the attack will fight a 5*1.25=6.25 axeman. If this is not clear I can try to make it clearer.

The mechanics of the Axe vs. Vulture combat are clear, what is not clear to me is why the game developers replace a base unit with a UU that is decidedly worse. Give both of the units C1+Shock and the axe still gets odds! If is was meant to be better than a swordsman then it would have been better to have the vulture replace the swordsman so the Sumer could still build axes.

The axe rush is purely hypothetically speaking. My main concern was in defending against Vultures, and retep would have to cross flat land at some point to get to me.

Sumeria was introduced in the Beyond the Sword expansion, which also introduced Corporations (which, at time of release, would completely tank the economy of any AI civ they were present in), colonial maintenance, random events that give golden ages, great people, and eliminate inflation, active espionage missions that the AIs would use to constantly blow up your improvements but little else, and, of course, the fucking AP Victory condition.

[GermanJoey]

If both units get the same promos they will get the same odds as without any promos. I'm not sure whether they didn't understand their own combat mechanics (and genuinely thought that Vultures would get 50% odds against axes and better odds against everything else) or if they didn't understand the issue they created with Sumeria only having chariots to defeat axemen.

Its both. The people who worked on the expansion packs for Civ4 were different than those who worked on the base game, unfortunately. I think a lot things were added just to make the game different enough to sell copies.

[Cornflakes]

I founded my 2nd city last turn. Jowy founded same turn, but before me in turn order. Someone else founded a turn later than us (I don't remember who, I think REM). Jowy has been #1 in both Food & MFG basically the whole game. Retep whipped what I'm pretty sure is his settler a turn or two ago, so I expect to see a 2nd city from him next time I get the save. Nothing of particular interest discovered by scouting in the last few turns. Scout killed a lion, currently has Woody I 0.7 health and needs 1 more XP for woody II.

[Cornflakes]

Thoughts on an extended dotmap ... Here are the three iterations I went through.

Iteration A: I am not completely satisfied with the current arrangement because I have several boxes around tiles that can't ever be worked. This dotmap also feels a bit loose, hard to defend. No two cities are close enough to be reinforced from another city in 1-turn. On the other hand I have no vulnerable diagonals that can be 1-turned with mounted units.

Iteration B: This was more of a testing things out dotmap. I do not like the ORANGE location in the south at my original Hammers_Galore location. It just cuts off too much area down there. My BLUE city would have to be a lot further down that peninsula. In the North I realized YELLOW should be moved so that I could fit the PURPLE in. Long therm that will be a pretty poor city, but mid term it's a capital cottage incubator and stepping stone to the PURPLE border city in the North. After finishing it and stepping back I realized that YELLOW should probably be 1E.




My current working dotmap. Still feels a bit loose, but it's the best I can come up with right now. The numbers are tentative settling order. Compared to Iteration A, I swapped settling order of YELLOW and BLUE. I did this to give yellow a bit more time to grow in order to whip out the galley for the island city. Also, this gives me more time before brushing up with the neighbor in the South. Once I settle Blue I will need to be ready to garrison it. Until BLUE is settled the only city I will have to worry about is RED.

Both the Stone's are too far away to be of any use for the early wonders, but that Marble! My plan is to try for Polytheism to found Hinduism concurrently with the settlement of RED_4 approximately T50. Of course, that is very optimistic thinking there because Polytheism will probably fall before then. I want to make a big culture push at RED, Chopping Oracle in with the marble ASAP. I'll probably use the marble there for Parthenon after that. If I can build up a nice culture barrier here it will make defense a lot easier, and make attacking into Retep easier down the road.

[Cornflakes]

I may not have been posting much, but I have been simming.




Micro plan through settler for 3rd city.




Micro plan for 3rd city (ORANGE, SW of Silver) in the above dotmap.

With CHM + Ivory + Silver I'll have high happy caps early. The general plan at Genesis and Newton after I get to the end of the above plan is to keep those cities working the food tiles only and stack whips to get out both Granaries and another Worker (#3) + Axe + Spear + Settler for the RED_4 site by Turn 50. That is too far out to really plan though because by that time I'll be having more interactions with barbarians and neighbors and the need for military or lack thereof will dictate build orders and whether I can sneak both the Granaries in before any military. But general quick simming suggests that it is possible to get all that by T50.

[Cornflakes]

I have now found everyone's starting location except Bob, but I have uncovered enough of the map that I can make a good guess as to his location ... click on the screenshot to see map stitch full size




I drew the PINK box around the map (note the "A" sign at each of the corners). By my count I get Map dimension 40W x 24H = 960 ... 660 land tiles according to score mouse-over. 660/960 = 0.688 ... 1-0.688 = 0.312 ... If I remember correctly the cut-off for circumnavigation to be available is 0.32, so not available. I should have both the x- and y-axes defogged in another two or three turns (unless I get my scout and warrior both killed by barbs). We shall see, but honestly I'm hoping it's not available. It is a huge advantage especially in the earlier game where naval units have low base movement points.




Note that Bob declared war on REM, which prompted me to make the stitch above to try and deduce Bob's location. T36 on normal speed seems really early to be a real war, unless it's a worker-steal by a warrior. Everybody just founded 2nd city about T30. Even if Bob settled for Horses he would barely have had time to connect them and build a chariot, much less walk it over to REM. My guess is that this is just a declare war to scout.




Overview of my budding empire; there is just a hint or rose beginning to show through the bud.




I sent a warrior down the isthmus to my south to map out the area and finalize the dots down there. This turn I had to make the decision whether i was going to send my Worker/Settler un-escorted to ORANGE, or whether I would turn back the warrior as escort. I decided to play it safe. If we had barbs off I would have sent them un-escorted because that water there ensures that no enemy can get there without going past without being seen by my warrior in the south or my culture in the north.

My worker just finished the Elephant camp and will road, road SW, road Silver just in time for the settler to move through. I don't know whether the river will prevent road movement onto the Elephant. In my sim it does not, but I don't know how it will respond in the actual game. I will be able to test that with the go-to command on a warrior as soon as the road is completed.




I am top in Food and MFG This is only because Jowy (who has been top in both all game) whipped his capital 4 -> 2 this turn.

[Cornflakes]

Refer back to the large map stitch in the above post with the rival locations noted.

I like my position on the map. I have a secure 3rd city site that I will have many turns of warning, and will not even have to garrison. I have large open tracts of land to my east AND west, and only one. My 2nd city is planted toward a large open tract of land and should be fine except for marauding barbs. The only neighbor I should have to worry about crossing swords with in the next 50 turns is Retep.

I think that naval combat will play an important role in this game. Not so much "naval" combat in the sense of ships fighting ships, but rather amphibious assaults.

[Cornflakes]

No screenshot, sadly. But I got BW end of turn, and copper is ... 3rd ring capital which I'm assuming is consistent for everyone, hence the smiley face. So no horse or copper first ring means less worries about defending against an early rush.

Specifically, my copper is 2W of Furs. This is really a poor location for is as far as having copper as a workable tile, as it's on the tile where I was planning to put a fishing village at some distant point in the future (and therefore outside the planned BFC of all cities in the near future).

I have come to the end of my micro plan in the east, and have been playing the last a couple turns without simming (worker building a cottage and Newton putting hammers into Granary).