ISDG 2012 flame war

[MJW (ya that one)]

Edit: Changed thread title to be more descriptive to its current state. Feel free to change it back or even close the thread. The only reason why it's going on is that people want to get in the last word.

I don't think anyone cares in more but this probably being the last ISDG ever justifies this thread.

A quick summary after you guys left: WPC died (not without drama) and CFC and CivFr started fighting again. HRE refused to go to war with anyone ever and became neutral. At some point CivFr gave up and became a vassal to CivPlayers. This forced Apolyton and CFC to ally otherwise CivPlayers and CivFr would kill everyone else. However, CivFr was totally crippled and Apolyton+CFC started wining the war. Even CivPlayer's stunt of razing Apolyton's capital of Aurora* (which was size-20 uber city, had wallstreet, oxford, a 72 base gold shrine and the Statue of Liberty) didn't help. You have to read what happened after that in the turn-thread at CFC. I'll just say it's highly suspicious that people stop playing their turns when they are losing...I've seen it too many times to give people the benefit of the doubt on this issue...

If you want to know how Apolyton got in a good position despite losing Aurora it was that CFC, CivFr and CivPlayers were fighting for a long time and couldn't make progress and we all know that's very bad. Also getting the Kremlin on a coinflip and Mackoti dropping out helped...

There was no official result--the game was just ended. If the game were to go on with the same players CivPlayers+CivFr would give up allowing CFC+Apolyton to take all their cities for basically free. UCiv/HRE would have no way of keeping up with that at all so the only plausible winners would be CFC+Apolyton. If someone was replaced all bets are off because diplomacy.

Caledorn cannot post the save because he uses the same password for everything. I'm sure he can take screen shots to give a more of an idea (CivPlayers really were screwed because CivFr was useless and CFC+Apolyton had more than double the power of them) about the current state of the game or get someone else to.

You can read my other thoughts in the Apolyton turn-thread when the forum opens if you care...

*How they did it spoiled if you wanted to guess:

They gave a commando unit a movement-promotion using a great general after offloading from a transport.

[SevenSpirits]

I'll just say it's highly suspicious that people stop playing their turns when they are losing...

What, you suspect people might be less interested in playing if their position is bad? NO KIDDING.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I'll just say it's highly suspicious that people stop playing their turns when they are losing...

What, you suspect people might be less interested in playing if their position is bad? NO KIDDING.

They always deny it though... and I've seen others deny this when not playing in the game so I started doubting myself on this issue.

[Caledorn]

I'll just have to add, for any potential aspiring crackers around, that the password thing sounds way worse than it actually is. I only use the same password for the Pitbosses, and I have stopped doing that from PB23 and onwards. The password in question is not a password I use for other things.

It was kind of annoying to have to type several different passwords, and I even forgot one at a point leading to a restart of a Pitboss, so I decided it was easier to just use the same back then.

[WilliamLP]

Yeah, if you used the same password everywhere it would mean that anyone who cracked your banking information could also sabotage my civs, which would be a serious problem for me.

[antisocialmunky]

Can you give us the save after all the active PB's have run their course?

[mackoti]

Seeing this thread remembered me i didnt read the RB discution about the game.Just a few toughts after i read till page
395.
1>great opening and strong play as a micro civ , getting so fast research so early.
2.Reading further i am sad i have totaly agree with 2metra about how RB treated CFC.I have many chats in which i tryed to make 2 metra to work with rb instead of others but after reading what people wrote in the thread was imposible why:
a.becasue RB always considered any nation just to work for RB.
b,never considered CFC like a posible alie.
c.when planted starfall, and and after cfc planted theyr city(yes was planted by me,so i was the stupid guy), player from rb were saying cfc plant is stupid and agresiv and that they were gaving too much ast stone and some other resource, when the real case was RB got a city at 4 tiles distance culture of CFC capitol.
d.Cfc was direct, we want a city there and that was moked intensely on the rb forum , If RB would had looking for aliie(but from i read there they never looked for that ,but just other civs to use ,and to call them dumb or not that smart),they should be fair with them so there for sure CFC should had got the fish , but not, not just RB took the all food there, they call CFC all kind of names.
3.I left CFC for 2 reason : not enough time and the way 2metra treated our allies(dont expect i say something wrong about 2 metra here, actualy he sticked to some promise stuff in some chats , even that put our civ in great danger and made as at some point third civ from a front one, this decision were to gave money to both CP and apolyton, to race for comunism so because of that we got comunism at least 10 turns latter then them, and second was to atack the french becasue he promised to Mz altough we were in great danger from CP.In the end he was right to stick with Mz cause if the game would had continued they would had been the dominant civ left so there is alot to learn from him.
4.If you want read cfc thread , people were never so against RB as rb was against cfc.And sommer was very few present in to the game discution.

In conclusion i would say RB arogance made them paid, I am convinced if you didnt plant starfall so agresiv i could had convinced guys for an actual aliance with RB,but you never showed any wish to cooperate and that can be seen from thread, many people saying that turn 175 will came and then will se about CFC.
What other thing which made me sad was litle respect show towards others(even is our thread and we can say whatever we want), Many times i was like why i didnt played for RB, but after reading thread i am glad i didnt,and i can say the dudes from CFC were great dudes.

[Krill]

Thanks for the post mackoti, and for the detail you put into it.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I didn't joint RB for other reasons (in spite of everything Sullla is popular enough to get 60% of on his side making everyone else superfluous) but RB's attitude was fully justified in some cases. For example, going warrior first without scout start deserves to be mocked and ridiculed. And the players don't have any excuses because this is almost a ten year old game so by extension the players are mocked and ridiculed. So after calling warrior first "terrible" tacking on "who are the opening suckers?" basically doesn't mean anything new.

[pindicator]

if it helps, people who proposed alternative strategies within the team were equally disrespected...