EitB PBEM XXXIX Setup and Tech Thread

[Dreylin]

I thought we were waiting to see the start? Would also like to have a thread to post thoughts in as I make selection.

Is starting Worker confirmed? I think so, but want to check.

Also, have we heard from Northstar or do we need to recruit a 4th?

[Kragroth]

Dave asked for civ picks so I sent them. I emailed North Star. Worker start is confirmed unless there are objections from you / North Star.

[Northstar1989]

Hey guys!

Sorry I've been out of touch! I've been busy with family, the holidays, and a little bit of Kerbal Space Program...


Q's suggestions for settings sound mostly OK, but a little boring to me. I'd really like to see Flavor Start or Wildlands on to mix it up a little. And what's this about limiting diplomacy to with the AI's and disallowing Tech Trading? Diplomacy is an ESSENTIAL part of multiplayer (otherwise you might as well be playing with computers), and Tech Trading, while a rarely allowed setting, does a lot to make for more interesting gameplay (mainly, when lagging players use it to dogpile onto the game leader). I'm find without Tech Trading, but I'd REALLY like to see Diplomacy enabled.

I could be mis-understanding the bit about diplomacy, of course. Q, did you mean diplo would be conducted through e-mails rather than the in-game interface?


I've no idea what the Mirrorlands map looks like (of course, I was really hoping for an Erebus-style map before, imbalance aside), and I'd really like more info on it before deciding on my civ picks. Could somebody point me in the direction of the last game where it was used?


Regards,
Northstar

[Bobchillingworth]

(I'm ded-lurking Qg, but not speaking for him)


"AI Diplomacy" doesn't refer to conducting diplomacy exclusively with AI, but rather conforming to the same limitations as one, ie. only being able to use the trade window for proposals, and being unable to send text messages through it.


RB used to run most games with "full diplomacy" (up to and including out-of-game chats and emails), but the general consensus evolved that it was detrimental for several reasons:

1. It gave an advantage to players who were native / fluent English speakers (admittedly not a factor here)

2. It required players to either invest lots of time talking with other players or else suffer global isolation.

3. It led to drama over "NAPs" (Non-Aggression Pacts) and the fairness of subverting them.

4. It sucked up lots of free time, beyond what it already took to play turns (which can get quite long).

5. It somewhat counterintuitively gave an advantage to leading civilizations, who could throw their weight around to bully weak civs into pseudo-vassalage, cow their neighbors and dogpile potential upstarts. People are overwhelmingly more likely to dogpile a trailing civ than those at the top of the scoreboard- diplomacy only serves to exaggerate this tendency.

6. It unbalanced the game in numerous ways, such as by allowing players to provide each other with map information far before they could normally obtain it.

7. It's simply not fun to get eliminated by an unstoppable alliance formed in secret behind your back.



All that said, there are various ways to allow different margins of diplomacy within a game, such as public diplomacy conducted in a single forum thread.

[Qgqqqqq]

Bob did a pretty good job of speaking for me there

I'd add that it had a tendancy to magnify the drama of the game considerably, in a manner that often became unpleasant.

Diplomacy is a complicated issue, but the "standard" setting is certainly AI diplomacy. I'm prepared to discuss public diplomacy/banter thread, but IMO standard or unlimited diplomacy is too distortive on gameplay, and I don't really have the inclination to go there.


You can find Mirrorland here to play it for yourself. As to MP, I honestly can't remember. Searching for 'mirrorland' in the Completed PB/PBEM thread should find it for you.

[Dreylin]

I've sent my picks.

[Kragroth]

North Star. I think you should save some of your desires for picks for your thread at http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=7243 You need to respond there if we are going to get a game going.

This map is erebus like in the sense that there are choke points and Dave V is apparently adding blockers there too.

[DaveV]

Starting screenshot:




Notes:

1) I used four random civs to generate the map. I will neither confirm nor deny that anyone has picked the Elohim.
2) I still need to do a bit of editing, so the land tile count is low by ~8 tiles.

[Kragroth]

This is a generous map but I do notice that there's an archer there where there is no archer starting with discovery. There's no noticeable copper or any hunting animals (elephants beaver deer etc.)

Else looks fine. I assume we all get duplicate starts?

[Qgqqqqq]

Yes, we get duplicate starts.

Looks great, thanks!