Overview picture for dot mapping purposes (obviously terrain, resources, forests and rivers are different).
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[SPOILERS] - Available to new home, slightly used civ, 1 previous owner
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Turn 1 scouting update:
 So, another hut that's going to mess up scouting. It's cool though....so long as I don't get a map. The outcomes from hut pops on Monarch are as follows:
If a scout pops the hut (and in this instance the goody hut popped by the capital borders when they expand), then barbs aren't possible, so there are 15 potential outcomes. If there is not a unit to heal (so popped with culture, or the unit is over 60% health) then that outcome isn't possible either, also can't get XP, so that leaves 12 outcomes for capital, 14 for scout . I think there are restrictions on the ability to get a warrior from a hut as well, but I can't remember them. Fairly sure that I can't get it here, so that's only 12 possible scout outcomes, 10 for the capital. Of which 5 are for gold, only 1 is high gold. The map is the worst possible outcome: I know the coastlines and I don't need that information just yet. Tech or scout would be the best, although saving 7 turns on Mining would be a bit meh it is still really useful given the tech hole everyone is in on a huge map. A second scout would actually be solid, increasing the number of huts I could get. So really an extra scout is like maybe a scout and another 100 gold plus map knowledge, maybe it gives me a tech. Early scouts are amazing. So really for the northern hut there is a 2/12 chance (don't bitch about 1/6) of junk map but that at least would mean I will not have delayed scouting in vain, 5/12 chance of gold which isn't relevant until I get second and third cities down, 2/12 chance of XP and getting W2 scout to help scouting catch up a bit and maybe even that elusive goody hut HE unit. So I'm really hoping for that 3/10 chance of scout or tech. What techs are good though? Because not all techs are equal.
But I'm probably just going to get a map up north and gold down south which is just a huge waste of time for me. 
As to how I'm going to play out this start, the plan is split into two parts. Tech path is Mining>BW>[Fishing or Agri], last techs dependent on second city location and hut pops.
Worker first as is standard, worker pastures the pig T13. Them move to grass hill 44 of IotS and mine that T18, then move to the grass hill 2 of IotS and mine that T23. This allows the worker to then move to a forest on T24, and I finish BW eot T24 to start chopping. IotS builds the worker until eot T9, then grows @2 eot T15, and grows again eot T18 to size 3. Builds a warrior that completes eot T17. It is possible to micro slightly, to build into something else for a turn and then finish the warrior and grow at the same time and overflow into a 5 turn worker @size 3, finished eot T23. Turns out that the micro isn't that important due to rounding. So on T24 I have a size 3 city with grass pigs and two grass hill mines, and either 0 or 2 food in the box micro dependent. 1 warrior and hopefully still 1 scout. I'll have Mining and BW researched in addition to Hunting and Mysticism, but not in slavery. At this point, I have options. I can go for 2 settlers, finished eot T27 (double chopped) and eot T31 (overflow and one chop) respectively. This plan is a bit risky without popping Agriculture or Fishing (or even Mining if I got it next turn) because I can't get the food hooked quickly due to so few workers. I also will lack the military resources to defend the settlers. I could easily get a third worker instead of the second settler but then there would be few tasks for it due to no Wheel for roads, so I'd essentially be forced to use it to chop. It's an option. My preferred option is to try for Henge though. I already have Myst, and whilst there are a bunch of other players with it, I have the fastest start so I believe I can get there before anyone else if I prioritize it. I will have the mines down for production, and I can continue to grow to size 5 whilst building it. I can still double chop the settler eot T27 provided the overflow from the worker is placed into a settler. IotS will grow @size 4 eot T29 and finish Henge eot T35 with 2 chops landing on T35 (one of which would be a Mine/chop). End of T35 I'd have IotS @size4, Henge, pigs and 3 grass mines, 18 food in the box (need 10 to grow ie growth in 2), a second city @size 2 with crabs hooked, 1 warrior, hopefully still a scout and 2 workers. That sounds decent to me. (January 6th, 2015, 18:03)Krill Wrote: I found a way to make the start work with just Hunting. Specifically, I have to go Mining>BW>Agri and the worker pastures the pig, then mines the hills 44 and 2 of the capital. The capital goes worker>warrior>build something for a single turn>finish warrior and worker at size 3. The workers then both chop hill forests to get a settler out eot T27. I overflow enough to finish a third worker, or to dump into a settler which would finish eot T31 naturally, or start to grow and use a single chop, both mines and a forest (starving at -1fpt) to finish the settler eot T31 anyway. Or just whip it for 1 pop immediately. I feel like I didn't explain myself as well as I think I should have here. I wrote about why I feel the pick I made is good enough, but I didn't write about what civ and leader pair fits this start and why.  This is a great start. 2 hammer plant, two food resources, one of which is a 6 food tile. There are 8 forests, and 10 grass hills. Some may comment that this is not a good capital because of those hills but that's a pessimistic point of view, I prefer to think that this start has a ready made HE that doesn't need slavery to build workers and settlers and has plenty of forests to help speed expansion and still have some left over for wonders, a granary etc. This start needs four techs to make the city as productive as possible: Hunting (pig pasture), Agriculture (rice farm), Mining (well duh) and Bronze Working (gotta chop those forests to get to the juicy river mines). Theoretically, can do without BW but that leads to inefficient worker micro. The Wheel isn't necessary until the need to road to the second and third city for trade routes. Fishing is not relevant at this start as no seafood is visible when making the pick. Strictly speaking, none of these techs need to be be provided by the civ and can be researched, unless EXP is picked. With Hunting and Agriculture costing 103 beakers, and EXP using a forest so only making 10 beakers per turn, EXP going worker first spends a turn with a worker doing nothing on the pig as Hunting is not yet researched if it is not available on the civ. So EXP as a trait has a condition on it to be picked. The rest of the traits are perfectly viable given this start: On a map with over 200 land tiles per player and coast lines present it can, IMO, be assumed that this will be a long game thus picking late game traits is fine provided that there is a plan to not call behind too much. Given the way the snake pick went, the only leaders that had been taken were ORG/IMP ORG/FIN and CRE/EXP. It would have been fine to pick Persia (Agri/Hunting) with anything, Egypt/Ottomans (Agri/Wheel), China/Korea (Agri/Mining) with a none EXP leader and gone Hunting first. But for me, Persia is uninteresting for UB and UU, Egypt I've played before, Ottomans want EXP but then the lack of Hunting hurts, China and Korea don't...I'm just not thrilled. But if not picking EXP, then improving the rice gives a 5 yield tile due to not have multipliers into workers and settlers that allows the double mine strategy to function. So starting with Agri is cool. Picking something like Gandhi of Korea would be fine. But I want to play EXP, so given that, what works? Hunting is mandatory. The 2 turns head start form the worker is not much but there is no reason to throw it away. That means I could pick Ethiopia (Mining), Germany (Mining), Greece (Fishing), HRE (Myst), Persia (Agriculture), Russia (Mining), Vikings (Fishing). Disregard the Fishing civs due to lack of second useful tech, and I think all of these are viable choices. Then check for UB and UU synergy.
So picking EXP/synergy trait of corresponding civ seems legit. Mehmed of HRE is, I think, the best combination for this start given EXP, but Mehmed of Germany has interesting strengths. Persia is there for the early game benefit of techs but I think Germany matches that plus has solid UB compared to the Apothecary. Peter of Russia seems like a good choice as well (but I hate PHI). Why didn't I picked HRE then? I've already stated that Mehmed would have been my dream pick before I saw this start, he was available, and it would fit the civ as well. Simple answer is that as this is a replay of PB1, I do have nostalgia for Joao. I don't think EXP/IMP is a good trait combination, and certainly I believe that Mehmed should be stronger in this game. EXP/Hunting can play this start out the same way regardless of the second trait: worker first, then improve pig and two hills, build a second worker eot T24. If the civ also starts with Agriculture, it is possible to mine one hill then farm the rice, or even to head straight to the rice. In that instant, it's generally better to stop growth at size 2 for the second worker, growing @size 2 eot T15 and then completing worker2 eot T21 with the rice farmed T21 as well. At that point, making 9 fpt options are to grow or go straight into a settler. Could hit size 4 eot T26 with two grass hill mines down, with BW eot T24 to enable chops for a settler eot T30, double chopped. The beaker differential between Agri and Mining is irrelevant due to not having to start chopping until T27, so going Agri>BW or Mining>BW works. Three turns ahead of IMP/HRE. Which seems about right: IMP would get a third settler eot T31 if I went that route but be down one pop point, due to HRE not being able to hook the rice and still get to BW in time. Which is why IMP/Germany was on the table, going Agri>BW would have enabled the double settlers. Note: This doesn't apply to HRE, Mehmed of HRE can't do this due to lacking both Mining and Agri so would follow the same plan as I am in game but just slower. These starts also can't get Henge in the same timeframe thus making it a riskier play because they can't get Mysticism in time to start the Henge build. End of the day, I think I've picked a weaker combination than I could have. But I want this challenge, and I believe a lot hinges on Henge: if I get that eot T35, then I've essentially cut out one of my largest issues which is to somehow pop borders without delaying the snowball from rolling. EXP/ORG of HRE would be able to get settler eot T29, grow to 4 eot T33, Henge eot T37 using an additional chop and down on tile improvements compared to IMP (plus the slower second city). Mehmed of HRE could just about take the same path as Joao but has a late game and makes the UB much easier to use.
In all honesty I'd rather that this hut didn't exist: it's delayed scouting by a turn.
  The scout movements are now straight forward. It moves 79 onto the northern hill, which uncovers the top of the map. Then moves 17 and uncovers the rest of the peninsula land mass, then 43 to check for any seafood so I can dot map the north. Then 21 and heading west for that hut or SE to uncover the rest of my first ring. The most interesting development is that there is a fish tile where I intended to plant my second city. So now I can get that city to 8 food, but need to find additional hammers for a work boat. I could sacrifice having both first ring and settle on the plains hill instead; I may do this depending on what the dot map for the north looks like, and hence why I'm spending the next 4 turns scouting land that I'm not going to settle until T70 rather than hut hunting. (January 12th, 2015, 04:19)Krill Wrote: Fucking maps mapmakers. FTFY Any chance of giving us your thoughts on the competition and what they picked?
Completed: RB Demogame - Gillette, PBEM46, Pitboss 13, Pitboss 18, Pitboss 30, Pitboss 31, Pitboss 38, Pitboss 42, Pitboss 46, Pitboss 52 (Pindicator's game), Pitboss 57
In progress: Rimworld
I usually don't do opponent analysis but I'll give it a go. No like I've got much else to do this week (yay annual leave).
(January 12th, 2015, 06:24)Old Harry Wrote:(January 12th, 2015, 04:19)Krill Wrote: Fucking maps mapmakers. Dave Chappelle Wrote:Boo this man! Played: Pitboss 18 - Kublai Khan of Germany Somalia | Pitboss 11 - De Gaulle of Byzantium | Pitboss 8 - Churchill of Portugal | PB7 - Mao of Native America | PBEM29 Greens - Mao of Babylon |
