Super Massive Enhanced Gameplay Mod 1.0.1.3 - Beta

[Krill]

I think I know what that is and it should be a one line fix in xml. Will have that posted tomorrow. Work in the morning...

[GermanJoey]

An outsider's point of view: I like the way the Fall from Heaven mod handles religion: the first player to research a religion-unlocking tech gets the holy city plus a missionary of that religion; all subsequent players only get the missionary. This lets you spread the religion to a city of your choice, even if you don't get there first.

+1, great idea. I always thought this was a smart change in FFH.

[Old Harry]

Is there a risk that Buddhism and Hindu are the only religions that will spread if everyone gets that missionary? In ffh the religious techs are almost mutually exclusive, but in bts you will research most of them eventually. Perhaps you could get a different religion (random or chosen) but the holy city doesn't fall til someone gets the right tech, meaning you can make plans for getting a holy city later...

I like the idea though, and I like that it might make splitting the religious buildings unnecessary.

[Qgqqqqq]

Is there a risk that Buddhism and Hindu are the only religions that will spread if everyone gets that missionary? In ffh the religious techs are almost mutually exclusive, but in bts you will research most of them eventually. Perhaps you could get a different religion (random or chosen) but the holy city doesn't fall til someone gets the right tech, meaning you can make plans for getting a holy city later...

I like the idea though, and I like that it might make splitting the religious buildings unnecessary.

This.

I agree that the FFH way is good, but it has a very different setup (where religions are separated not integrated into the tech tree, and where later religions have differing and greater advantages).

[Krill]

Is there a risk that Buddhism and Hindu are the only religions that will spread if everyone gets that missionary? In ffh the religious techs are almost mutually exclusive, but in bts you will research most of them eventually. Perhaps you could get a different religion (random or chosen) but the holy city doesn't fall til someone gets the right tech, meaning you can make plans for getting a holy city later...

I like the idea though, and I like that it might make splitting the religious buildings unnecessary.

I'm trying to understand this, but it doesn't seem to make much sense to me: You research meditation and you a missionary of your choosing, unless you are the first to research the tech in which case you get the Buddhist holy city? I'm trying to understand this because it seems that shrine output would be absolutely bizarre.

How would that work for players who researched the tech later on?

[Krill]

All that said, FFH is unique in that as all religions are different it's important that all players have access to them regardless of being able to reach them first (which places an awful lot of strain on tech strategies). SMEG, RtR, ToW and BTS constrain to the idea of there being no differences on religion wrt strategy as they are identical in functionality just not time periods in which they can be founded. There's not really much point in giving players access to multiple religions via a missionary, especially as that has a huge impact in border popping in the early game.

[Dreylin]

Perhaps we just need to define a single tech that will always give a single Missionary on discovery. The idea would be for it to be early enough to have an impact, but not so early (or on a "standard beeline") that it's a little-effort guarantee. I'd suggest Theology as a first idea.

I'd see it as ideally checking for State Religion present and if so, granting a Missionary of that religion. If no State religion, either a random missionary from an already-founded religion, or from the most dominant religion worldwide (whichever is easier to code).

[Krill]

1. There is no way to make that multiple-missionary spawning system working with shrines.
   
2. Did people just jump from "There doesn't seem much point in spreading religion" to "I like being able to get a religion to spread" and not realize the difference in the two issues?

[Old Harry]

What I was imagining was that the first player to Med gets the Buddhist holy city, then the other players get a random or chosen religion in one random city when they reach Med. It's then up to them to get monasteries or OR to build the missionaries to spread it. So for example they take Taoism, spread it around a bit, then bulb Philosophy, at which point they get the Taoist holy city (perhaps in the largest non-Taoist city?)

Perhaps if they are then second to Poly they could choose to have another random Taoist city and so on.

I guess the risk of Bud/Hin/Jew being even more the major religions than normal just increases the value of being first to the tech, so it probably isn't a big problem, but I thought this mod was about throwing crazy ideas at the game and seeing what sticks.

[Krill]

You thought what happens to shrine is output if bunch of players choose the same religion?