Holy Warriors - Civilization 5 (BNW) Succession Game

[Ichabod]

Sorry to hear that, Rowain.

So, Timmy is up and T-hawk is on deck.

By the way, I forgot to tell in the report that Rome is protecting Monaco; so it's best if we don't steal workers from them.

We'll lose 1 faith pre turn once we improve the deer (just to make sure everyone knows this).

[T-hawk]

Is that last right? I think a camp doesn't clear a forest. Or is that only Civ 4?

[Ichabod]

Is that last right? I think a camp doesn't clear a forest. Or is that only Civ 4?

The UA mentions unimproved forest tiles. From a quick search, roads don't count as improvements for this, but camps do.

[timmy827]

EDIT - save added. Apparently zips allowed but saves not.

Played set up to T40. Was convinced to build worker before settler.

Scout found sweden:

The mountain range meant I couldn’t across to the northeast coast, although I got around at the end of the set. No CS meeting gold, so the bought worker came ~same as the built one (embassy sales helped a bit)

But did get this


Other events:
Rome put a city here

-first AI hit Classical t37.
-Iroquois got the only other pantheon so far, took the ranged combat bonus
-Empricially Icha is right, camps cut us down to 1 faith/turn

Decisions
-Settler done next turn. The Iro’s are close to the solomon spot:

That has to be their capital, I saw borders early on in my set. Do we still settle knowing that it likely ticks off Iros?. If so I still think the hill 1NE of wheat is best. The warrior is cheated in that direction. Would move the truffled worker to the new city site
-Truffles done this turn but NOT SOLD YET. Rome has 4gpt, last turn they had 6. I think we just take that. The Marble will be connected next turn as Masonry done and horses soon, so those can occupy an AI with more gold.
-Scout found another ruins the next player will pop. After that where to? We could map out the northeast coast, but I’m a little worried about getting trapped, there was only a 1tile spot between sweden and the mountains. maybe back out now?
-Legalism is in. Assume we want Landed Elite next (few more turns)
-Shrine after settler? I put 1t into shrine already (we were just shy of size 4 when worker done)
-next tech?
-Monaco wants a trade route. How much influence is that worth? Why is there no city state quest article in the civ5 war academy?

[T-hawk]

Looks like it's time for a good old dotmap. Click for full size. Solomon is circled.




Starting from the backyard, I think the red and orange dots are the natural way to fill that area. They both get the Celts faith bonus, permanently for orange. They cover all the resources well, except some fish*. Orange gets the deer and wheat without having to pay for outer ring tiles in the capital.

*A single fish is worth little in Civ 5. Both the work boat (50H for 1F) and lighthouse (75H for 1F) take too long to pay back. I often go without ever improving fish.

I marked the dividing lines of equidistance from our capital to the AIs, subject to a best-guess about the Iro capital location. I think the determining factor on AI aggression is when you settle closer to their capital than to yours, so I think we're okay if we settle within the white lines.

I want to send the current settler to yellow dot, towards Rome. I think this is just way logistically easier than trying to hit the pink dot towards Iro and Solomon. Yellow will get a good fast start by borrowing the horses and sheep from the capital, and does get +1 faith Celts bonus. The monument from Legalism will claim the cotton and other horse quickly. Yellow's land isn't spectacular but it's good enough including a luxury. Remember Civ 5 cities get as much marginal production from cheap buildings like the granary as from the terrain.

I think pink dot is just too much of a stretch logistically at the moment. Solomon is good but not *that* overwhelming (no site in Civ 5 really is.) Also I think it's 3 tiles away from the Iro capital so illegal, and any means of bumping it eastwards gives up something relevant. We might still go to the area next, once we've got a bit more ability to reach it. I think I want to target the tech for roads next to help that, which will also get trade routes going.

I think the standard sale price for a luxury is 8 gpt, so would hold out for at least 7, or perhaps sell just before founding yellow dot just in case Rome does get mad.

I think all CS quests are worth 50 influence. We'll get to Monaco's request eventually but not for 50ish turns.

I wouldn't do the shrine until after the two Piety boosts to it. Focus on hard expansion first. A settler is as good as two shrines with the Celts bonus. I want another worker next, especially if we do go for Wheel for roads. Granary is also an option.

[yuris125]

Agree with everything you said T-Hawk! I think 7 gpt is the norm for a lux, and would be happy to sell for 6, but 4 certainly feels too low, expecting Emperor AI to improve their income within a few turns is reasonable

[timmy827]

Dotmap looks good. I'm not convinced on yellow 1st over pink, but going to work now so that's all I'll get to say about it before thawk plays. What do others think?

Guess I'm fearing getting boxed in fairly small since we can't conquer for a very long time. Either could well get taken if we don't plant it now.

Granary exists already. fine with all workers/settler build in your turnset

Roads maybe less important than usual, since we have no military to move around for reinforcements

[T-hawk]

One more argument for yellow: Barbarians. They are a significant problem when we can't build military. Yellow is very well sheltered from barbarians between Rome and the coast. Pink is a lot more exposed to its north and southwest.

I believe that if we get yellow and the backyard, we'll eventually have enough muscle to break out of the box by attacking Rome. Pink is optional and may land us in a two-front war which could be disastrous.

And on the contrary, roads may be more important, to shuffle that single warrior around where he's needed. He'll be like Batman.

[Ichabod]

Nice turns, Timmy. That faith ruin was spot on!

I don't think we can risk settling the pink dot or near it, now that we know the Iroquois are so close. A declaration of war would be the end of our game. A quick research shows that Hiawatha is a friendly/not that likely to attack leader, but I don't think we can risk it. And, like T-hawk said, barbs will be a major pain with 2 cities so distant from each other. I already spotted a barb camp near Ragusa and there's one near the Solomon mines, so we'd likely be under attack from both sides.

I like T-Hawks suggested yellow site (and the whole dotmap too). Let's take advantage of the fact that Rome didn't settle in our direction and steal that land.

About Monaco desiring a Trade Route, remember that this is done by Caravans now (it used to be that you were require to build a rosd to them, right?), so we could do it soon, if we so desire. Probably best to use our avaiable TR to send food to city number 2, but the influence with Monaco + gold can perhaps be worth it? There's also the option of getting some science with a TR to Rome (usually the AIs have more techs at this stage of the game). A food Caravan will give +4 food per turn in a city, in the Classical age (internet tells me this, not sure if it's correct), so perhaps a caravan is not such a bad build after the settler.

Any ideas regarding what Founder belief to take from our religion? I think Pilgrimage, that gives +2 faith for every foreign city following our religion could be good, since we have opponents pretty close to where our religion will spawn and we'll found a religion way earlier than everyone else. Haven't put a lot of thought into this, though.

I think staying in 4 cities until we are ready to conquer someone isn't so bad, so I'm not that afraid of getting boxed in.

T-hawk is up, Yuris on deck.

[T-hawk]

I don't know anything about how BNW trade routes work. I did play Beyond Earth for a bit and saw them there, so guessing BNW probably works similarly. Beyond Earth and presumably BNW also still have the road-based trade routes (for your internal cities) on top of the caravan-based routes.

I'd be up for the caravan next just to see what it does. I think yellow dot can develop well enough without a food trade route, it would just outpace the workers on tiles. I think the caravan unit will tell us ahead of time what the available options are for each possible route.

Agreed that Pilgrimage sounds good, I was going to mention that eventually. It's the only founder belief that generates more faith to contribute to Holy Warriors.

Will play in ~5 hours.