Nope. It was 10/2, I imagine it came Moai city. Barracks, Stables, SoZ and GG = 10XP
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[PB25 Spoiler] General Flauros leads the Creole Calabim
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July 6th, 2015, 06:29
(This post was last modified: July 6th, 2015, 06:29 by GermanJoey.)
Do you mean Mobility, not Morale? You can only get Morale with a GG I think.
Quote:What would you have done there, TBS? Let's say, from here: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid540041 Ok, it's hard to do this without being able to look at the situation and check out all of the costs, but lets see: Alphabet over Maths I think. What are you going to chop in? You already have too many hammers. Lets save the chop hammers until we have something good to put them in. You didn't build the Mids for another 20t anyway, should have Maths by then. So we go for alphabet instead, probably only put up 1 Lib in the capital, maybe another if you've got another good science city before turning tech on. That's 2c routes in every city, hopefully 3c, via HAK, Elkad island, Gav island. It may have turned HAK's attack aside if he's giving up a load of commerce to attack you. No way to know of course.It also allows you build research. Looks like you have around 4 other Libs being completed in that report, so that could be 360b. Maybe put that toward IW? Assuming there are no 3c trade routes left from currency, IW is ~half the price and gets you the gems tile and +1 tile worked vs essentially working a free coast tile per city. Now Forges are +2 happy buildings, so you finally have something good to put hammers into. Possibly MC->Maths->Currency. Currency -> MC -> Maths doesn't seem worth it, the extra pre-req roughly cancels the trade route gain. Maths -> Currency -> MC feels like too big a delay in those forges IMO. In general, try to work a few more cottages over mines if you see this situation coming up. I'd still be looking at getting the Mids ASAP. Tbh, if you're going for the early Math, I'd possibly use that to focus on the Mids. If you can somehow transport those 360h for the 4 Libs to 1 city for the Mids that's probably a better use of those hammers. You can take your time getting the Libs up while you grow to your new happy cap. I'd probably assume someone was beating me to MoM with getting Calendar so late in that tech path. Still, no harm in having a city set up to chop it out if it's still around. I can't quite decide what my GP plan would be. What did you go for anyway? You can work scientists at the capital for the quickest GP. Neither early Academy nor bulbing Math sounds super-appealling to me though. Maybe an early GA when the mids comes in, you could have a happy cap of 9 with the forges and grow into the Rep happy during the GA, use the GA hammers for Libs or markets. But then you'll feel pretty silly when you land the MoM. Alternatively just wait to get an engineer with Mids/Forge or a merchant with a market. Option 2: Turn that 200g into HBR, turn those 6 Libs into 11 HAs and kill someone. But that's a pretty risky strategy as Gav found out... Well, there's some theory anyway, obviously it's super hard to compare the different approaches.
July 6th, 2015, 16:09
(This post was last modified: July 6th, 2015, 17:55 by GermanJoey.)
Thanks for your thoughts, TBS.
Hmmm, this approach would have worked well I think, assuming that beelining Alpha ASAP prevents the war with HAK. Maybe it would have, but that's hindsight talking, I completely did not expect him to declare war when I dropped my settler off down there. Research builds would have been much better than libraries, I agree; Math was to chop the mids, but getting that with research builds would have been better, and that also drops Currency's price with the double-prereq. I don't think the Mids are feasible without Math... I was just able to barely get it done with an overflow chain and all those chops. I'm not sure how you think I can transfer 360 hammers from the 4 libraries to the mids city... Civ 1 caravans, maybe?  So, Alpha -> IW -> MC -> Math -> Currency -> Calendar as compared to Math -> Currency -> Calendar -> MC -> IW. I'm trying to think how much earlier I'd expect you to have MC completed; I had it T104, and if we figure Alpha is worth 10gpt starting ~T85ish + lets say 20bpt from research builds, that's ~50bpt break-even at this point, meaning you get IW T90, MC T97? Something like that? Math T101, because research builds get switched to forges, although the gems makes up for that a bit, Currency T105, Calendar T107. So, it's about the same except we get forges up earlier and libraries up later (and engineer specialists are just fine for Rep), and we could stockpile a few extra swords too. Sounds pretty good. This path might have delayed the Mids a little bit due to later math and I found out that I was competing with Gav for those, as he got a few hundred failgold, although he never mentioned them in his thread so I have no idea how close it was. It might not have been a super big deal because a forge could support a bigger overflow chain and would have enhanced the chops, so figure it finishes 1T after Math is in. Not bad. GPP-wise, I believe I got my first GPP, a scientist, out of Trouble Nation, which was the first GA, the second, a merchant, out of Creole Osceola (I got a market there to work 4 specialists), which combined with the music artist with fairly good timing for the second GA, and then finally, the 3rd, a TGL-powered scientist, out of Trouble Nation again, which went for an Academy in the capital to coincide with the switch into Bureaucracy. The HBR option would have been bad idea, I think, because it's a gamble on how my other neighbors react. Gavagai had essentially a single-front war, while if I attack Elkad, I risk Donovan jumping in against me, and if I attack Donovan, I risk Elkad. Attacking Donovan might have worked because Elkad was just playing catchup at this point, although Donovan was pretty strong in this era. However, I also had to worry about Gav and Borsche at this point, as they yet weren't locked in their blood feud. edit: Actually, I forgot Masonry; I actually went Math -> Masonry -> Currency, etc because I had to hook up my stone with a fort. With OB, you could avoid the fort (assuming Mindy would you road towards Anxious without flipping out ) but you'd still need Masonry of course. Figure you get that T99, and everything after that is delayed by 2T? So Math T103, Mids T104, Currency T107, Calendar T109. So, a little slower overall. Maybe still woulda worked out better, its hard to say...
I somehow blanked that you already had IC trade routes, so alphabet really depends on HAK's stance. I think I would have assumed you'd have peace there in the short term while making the decision, while they have lots of land to settle, but you never can tell with Mindy.
 Still, I think your estimates there are a bit pessimistic, you should be able to get Alpha T83, since you don't need any more gold saving. Then IW T88 has got to add 15gpt itself(5 for the gold 10 for 5 extra pop points), so MC around T93. Still only 11t difference in MC, but having the forges up before your golden age would surely be helpful. And agreed on the Mids, finish it 1t after Maths with all the chops. (July 6th, 2015, 17:53)The Black Sword Wrote: Then IW T88 has got to add 15gpt itself(5 for the gold 10 for 5 extra pop points), so MC around T93. Still only 11t difference in MC, but having the forges up before your golden age would surely be helpful. Agree that forges during a golden age could make a *lot* of difference  As far as IRON WORKING adding 15 gold per turn, by adding extra population points? Is this, perhaps, a reference to the jungle chop ability? B/c otherwise I'm not really seing it :/
Jungle gems. Chopping jungle gems gives that tiles commerce and the happy in other cities to work cottages.
Yeah, 15c is a pretty reasonable expectation for IW as it really would have been nearly +1 cottage per city, plus the gems. I think TBS is a little over-optimistic in some of his numbers (e.g. the only reason Math was a 3T tech was because of all those libraries I had!
 ) but I was probably being overly pessimistic, so the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. His strategy is still very interesting to me and I think, in hindsight at least, I would have gone for it, at the very least for the chance it could have smoothed things over with HAK.
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