(August 11th, 2015, 09:45)spacetyrantxenu Wrote: That's not what I was talking about. Obviously you're going to fight BGN. I didn't see what you mean about ending the game earlier, though. I wasn't saying you should let bgn take your cities, clearly you shouldn't. But what's that to do with the timing of the game ending?
You realize that BGN had to expend significant resources to deal with the fights he picked with Krill and I, right? Everything is zero-sum in the endgame; if you spend hammers on units, this is less beakers into space-race techs. If we had just rolled over and played dead, then TBS is also dead and perhaps BGN beats OH to space.
And who suggested you should roll over and play dead? Certainly not me. Did you also miss the IF in my statement? If you can't muster the units to mount an invasion, then don't do it. You could be right that I don't have a sense of the scale required and that as a result mounting an invasion to the east to keep yourself busy was an impractical goal.
But I've had enough of the implications that I'm arguing from a position of bias or self interest. I literally do not care if BGN gained cities from you or not, or if he won the game or not. I'm disappointed that the game wasn't allowed to conclude naturally, because it was epic and deserved a satisfying ending. That has been prevented, whether OH/TBS work out a replay ending or not, it isn't the same thing. What I do care about is being accused of being uneven or biased, as you and Krill (and someone in the lurker thread earlier) are doing, because that's patently absurd. I'm not defending anything BGN did or didn't do and honestly don't care about it. If you want to talk to him about all that then go for it. The point of contention isn't what he was doing, it's what you (and TBS) did that effected the outcome of the game. I'm trying hard not to dislike you, hysteria or no, but I won't pretend to like the way you played the end of the game. Is that my bias speaking?
Played: Pitboss 18 - Kublai Khan of Germany Somalia | Pitboss 11 - De Gaulle of Byzantium | Pitboss 8 - Churchill of Portugal | PB7 - Mao of Native America | PBEM29 Greens - Mao of Babylon
Yes Xenu, your subjective opinion of what constitutes a good ending is all that matters :rolleyes:
This was an epic game, with a good ending. I think it's fucking bullshit that people bitch that someone traded a GP when it's happened before in PB19, for a fair gold price. Doesn't matter if it's at T100 or 5 turns from the end of the game. The question if it's a rule infringement is a fair question to ask, but to be blunt as ever I think it's more bullshit to complain after the fact when lurkers were aware of the deal and thought it was kosher at the time with the given reasoning.
If future games ban unit gifting then that's cool, but this one didn't. It's even disingenuous to complain that it's Joeys fault when the only possible rule infringement was done on TBS' part, not Joeys. That's more bullshit and scape goating.
With regards to the bias, you have cognitive dissonance between how you expect different players to act.
Played: Pitboss 18 - Kublai Khan of Germany Somalia | Pitboss 11 - De Gaulle of Byzantium | Pitboss 8 - Churchill of Portugal | PB7 - Mao of Native America | PBEM29 Greens - Mao of Babylon
Wow... very cool. Most noticeable thing: after watching several slow conquests, China suddenly evaporating in an instant was startling to say the least.
Practically speaking, if you don't want people who have no chance of winning to just roll over and die they need to have practical objectives. And while there are obvious examples of throwing the game unfairly, I'm not convinced that these objectives have to always give way if they ever conflict, interfere or assist with the objectives of the potential winners. For the front runners, winning is obviously the priority, but that should not invalidate the objectives of other players (as if when one is out of the race one should let those in competition play in their little sandbox unless they try to invade one), especially in a game organised and participated in primarily for fun.
The only reason I can see for going after GJ is that his actions helped to kingmake. Yet dtay's own significant actions of obstructing spy movements is justified because <insert reason> And quite frankly, going after Joey for affecting the sacrosanct race between the front runners without equally going after BGN and TBS for trying to affect that hallowed competition they're in by initiating trades for GPs is just bullshit.
Lastly I really don't see why a replay is needed: if the game was "fair" - that TBS had coal just as OH had aluminium - that would have outweighed the kingmaking mentioned above anyway (as I've pointed out earlier in this thread) so it wouldn't even have been a race.
(August 12th, 2015, 00:58)ipecac Wrote: And quite frankly, going after Joey for affecting the sacrosanct race between the front runners without equally going after BGN and TBS for trying to affect that hallowed competition they're in by initiating trades for GPs is just bullshit.
And from my perspective it's really incredible that the great artist gift/sale is not considered bullshit by many.
Quote:Lastly I really don't see why a replay is needed: if the game was "fair" - that TBS had coal just as OH had aluminium - that would have outweighed the kingmaking mentioned above anyway (as I've pointed out earlier in this thread) so it wouldn't even have been a race.
That's a completely different discussion. Replay isn't there because of map fairness, etc. It's because game rules were broken.
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Understandably I'm losing the popularity contest here, that's ok. However, if getting games played out is not relevant I don't see why diplo victory is banned. Man, why do we play the game at all, we might as well vote the winner on T0 and nobody needs to spend a year with a game.
(August 12th, 2015, 00:58)ipecac Wrote: And quite frankly, going after Joey for affecting the sacrosanct race between the front runners without equally going after BGN and TBS for trying to affect that hallowed competition they're in by initiating trades for GPs is just bullshit.
And from my perspective it's really incredible that the great artist gift/sale is not considered bullshit by many.
Well, perhaps you can explain to us why certain kingmaking is bullshit and others are not - supposedly dtay's actions was fine even though he has no chance of winning and his actions were knowingly affecting the race.
Quote:
Quote:Lastly I really don't see why a replay is needed: if the game was "fair" - that TBS had coal just as OH had aluminium - that would have outweighed the kingmaking mentioned above anyway (as I've pointed out earlier in this thread) so it wouldn't even have been a race.
That's a completely different discussion. Replay isn't there because of map fairness, etc. It's because game rules were broken.
As you please. Just be aware that if the game was truly "fair" - ie TBS has coal just as you had aluminium you'd very likely be nowhere close to winning.
Quote:Understandably I'm losing the popularity contest here, that's ok. However, if getting games played out is not relevant I don't see why diplo victory is banned. Man, why do we play the game at all, we might as well vote the winner on T0 and nobody needs to spend a year with a game.
Ridiculous. You (and others) want a sandbox where non-competitors shouldn't interfere yet should allow themselves to be eaten if any of the frontrunners want to do so, and this is made even more ridiculous by the fact that interference from certain players (eg. plako, dtay) are selectively condoned.
Not everyone plays to win and not everyone has to. In fact some of the other objectives (eg dtay's revenge) were condoned by your team despite the fact that it fell under kingmaking. Why should other people not be able to do the same?
