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Krill

This is what we call insight and not blindly following superiors.

Screenshot and micro plan

Player combinations and analyses

Tech costs for PB27 (Monarch difficulty, Normal speed, Huge map) and game settings

Hut luck:

Krill

Joey, Brick, if you want to give me something like Boudicca of Mongolia I'm not going to turn it down.

But really I don't care what I get, I'd ust prefer to not have to play PHI which I'm pretty sure I'll reroll given a chance.

GermanJoey · August 11th, 2015, 06:13

What's wrong with Phi. Phi is good dude.

Krill · August 11th, 2015, 06:16

It is good. I just find it boring.

I'm actually concerned with CV balance being out of whack and PHI being too good at CV compared to other traits TBH. I don't care though. Rather play pretty much any other trait combination...although IND would make me rush Henge, and I'm feeling rather "blah" about SPI ATM.

GermanJoey · August 11th, 2015, 06:21

I guess you did just have Phi in PB26...

Krill · August 11th, 2015, 06:35

It's not just that, I dislike the whole playstyle for PHI in these "ordinary" FFA games. I like how PHI fits into a teamer, and it can be fun in limited city number games, but I can't find fun in the idea of bulbing a few techs and capitalizing on the temporary beaker advantage. PB26 was interesting because it exacerbated the effect of the delay on growth to shove out 2 GS and how that matched up to other playstyles, in effect it was something new to try out and the newness was fun and interesting. The trait itself, that wasn't. And TBH I think that recreation of PHI is actually balanced, not that I'd implement it into RtR.

Krill

Jesus fucking wept. First thoughts were to reroll, then looking at opponents that got good combos, dtay and Serdoa stick for sure and there is no chance we get better combos on a reroll than the IMP/IND/Sumeria for dtay and PRO/FIN/England for Serdoa.

Krill · August 12th, 2015, 14:59

AGG/SPI is pretty much a great late game trait combo. I need 17XP to reach commando. I can abuse Vassalage and Theocracy easily to do this, I don't get locked into civics and I can be on the ball and micro out each civic to the best of my ability.

But I just nerfed AGG with the changes to Commando being available from Drill and the Military Academy giving D1. SPI might be buffed due to the opportunity to not just stick in caste...but I linked the spec slots to the civics and not hte tech era, so I HAVE to rush Fued, and can't just beeline Machinery to unlock both the free spec slots and the CKN.

Fuck. It's not a good combo and it's slow, and on a toroidal map you can't be slow.

Krill · August 12th, 2015, 15:24

OK, I would reroll this choice, normally. I can't take it in this game. There may be 6 PHI leaders left which I hate even more than SPI, but there are yet more EXP leaders than that which are viable, and I obviously don't care if I get China again. The only bad civ IMO is Khmer and that with an EXP leader is OK-ish IMO.

The only leaders out of those that have not been rolled are the PHI ledaers, Huayna (IND/FIN), and Roosevelt (IND/ORG).

There is a draw of playing from behind though, and making what you can out of the start.

Krill

What I wrote over 5 years ago about China. They still have not been altered in RtR compared to base BtS, with hte relateive exception that starting techs in 3.0.0.1 are not as important. Or important at all IMO, but still worth about 7-8 turns in in the first 20 turns of a game, so they do have an effect:

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...6#pid74696

Quote:Yeah, but lets look at this logically:

We aren't talking about leaders, so the junk PRO trait isn't involved. We are talking about starting techs that mean you are no more than 1 tech away from a food tech, AH or Fishing, and only 1 tech away from BW for slaving,chopping and copper. Don't need Myst, don't have hunting for the junk scout start, don't need wheel that early because nothing to road. Only tech that could be useful is Fishing, because without fishing at t0 seafood starts are generally weaker than land based food starts with 5 yield tiles and better, especially if you are EXP. So I'd say that the techs are the best combo.

Moving onto the UB, yeah, no where near first tier, but it has it's niche. It isn't the terrace, it isn't the Obelisk, two UB that give you a whole new game to play, but it shines in the medieval era. Settle aggressively, and stake your claim to the land. Get the theatre in a front city, and chop out/slave a monastery after spreading religion. That would give you 6 base culture, or 7.5 adjusted. That gives you a significant turn advantage to popping your borders and making your front city safer, forcing your would be attacker to slave out an army faster, and hurting themselves in the process, or making them leave you alone with your extra land if they can't make the time scale. It gives you that tactical, rather than strategic edge. Unless you are going to go for a culture victory...

And the UU is underrated, especially with flanking in the game. But at the start, let's compare the units:

Catapult: strength 5, can't kill, can get flanked by HA and knights, can't attack amphib or take combat promotions, can take CR. Max collateral =50%

Cho-ko-nu: strength 6, can kill, can't get flanked (can get collateralled), can attack amphib, and can take combat promotions for field combat. Max collateral=60%

Against HA and mace, the CK does about .1 health less damage on collateral, compared to a cat, and equal to a knight, so no real difference when attacking. Both get shit odds on knights, but the Cho-ku gets better odds all round, for slightly higher cost (10 extra hammers). On defence, you want both cats and CK; it isn't a replacement, but combined it means you need to spend less on an army to defend against an incoming stack because you get a unit that can kill and collateral at the same time.

On attack it means that they can't just flank away your cats and shove units into a city to defend. Sure you won't be able to lower the defences, but you will be able to collateral to some extent. And you could be a bastard and bring along 4 cat, and force them to attack with knights/HA into spears/pikes, losing units to flank away a minimal amount of military resources.

You could argue about techs needed to get to Machinery compared to Construction, but in a CTON, when you can use different tech paths as required, and not have to worry about obsolescence? Machinery isn't that hard to beeline if you want it.

Again, it isn't the fast worker, or WC, but it is all round solid. And for that, I'd say it is one of the best in the game when you don't know what to expect, because of the flexibility it gives you.

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