[Spoilers] Adrien and Mardoc relax and play civ

[Mardoc]

Do you think Fenn is keeping Jowy busy by being a threat ? We must be approaching the end of their peace treaty.

Not really. I think they've still got 4-5 turns, but more importantly - look at the last turn's power graph. Fenn hasn't even replaced the power he lost the last time he and Jowy fought. Meanwhile Jowy keeps stacking up like a madman. Unless Fenn's power is all Cho-Ko-Nu's, Jowy's definitely got a surplus he can use on us without fear. And if it were, I think their last war would have gone differently.

Jowy not having maths is great news to us, he can't get construction before us now right ?

Depends on his GNP, which I haven't been paying attention to (pretty sure he's doing binary, though). But he can't get construction soon, anyway. If he beats us, it'll be because we're limping, not because he's racing.

In retrospect, maybe we should have aimed for Machinery, not Construction. I haven't seen Jowy use any units at all that aren't melee. Crossbows would absolutely murderize his army.

[AdrienIer]

Crossbows would absolutely murderize his army.

Even on the offense, which would make things interesting

[Miguelito]

Pbem68 spoiler

We considered oracling machinery for crossbows in the other game where Adrien got invaded by vultures. The problem's just that machinery on its own doesn't get you anywhere, you need archery (OK you had that here) and iron so you need to research IW and then connect the resource.... So it's awfully slow, and after all that tech campaign you have nothing but the unit from machinery, as I guess the improvements without corresponding civics agent really a thing

[Mardoc]

I, um, figured out what Jowy's up to


That's...20 Vultures, 4 Spears visible. Too many for counterattacking directly to be a viable strategy.

After consolidating in the capital, we've got this force to defend.


Eight axes, two chariots, a spear, an archer, and whatever we can scrape up over the next three-four turns.

One result of the way we've been playing is a lot of forests left to chop and workers without much else to do, so I think we can actually manage an axe built every turn. I'm debating if it makes any sense to turn one of them into Walls - extra 10% defense would be nice, but as nice as simply more units? Currently think no. I think adding another axe with 65%+ odds will matter more than slightly shifting the odds on the existing axes. Might be worth building walls in the backlines, though, since the relative boost is more.

I'm pretty sure this is the end. But I'm also pretty sure that Jowy only barely brought enough force. We ought to manage at least eleven axes, defending with a bit of fortification, +65% tile defense - we ought to win most of the first wave fights, only dying due to the extra nine vultures he brought along. Even there, I'm not sure he'll have enough to take out our periphery without reinforcing first.

So, I guess I'm happy. Being out of the game is a good thing. Forcing Jowy to spend that entire Power lead over Fenn...also very good. If Fenn uses the reprieve properly, he ought to be able to beat Jowy in the end.

My one disappointment is that I couldn't figure out how to simultaneously chop at least one forest/turn (enough for all our axes), deny Jowy any captured workers, and chop the furs and deer forests. I decided to leave the fur forest standing. I think I can manage to clear out the rest of the forests and still keep our workers safe.

[AdrienIer]

T-Rex will be attacked in about 4t right ? If so then yes 11 axes a spear and an archer. Well at least we tried, I don't expect us to do well even if the RNG is kind.

[Mardoc]

Well at least we tried, I don't expect us to do well even if the RNG is kind.

Depends on how you define 'do well'. Survive? No, not likely. I do think we've managed to push Jowy to the 'not gonna win' bucket, though.

But honestly, this has been the trajectory ever since we made the combined mistake of 'let's not build a monument, let's pop the bronze city borders efficiently with a religion or something' and 'sure, let's settle more than our share toward Jowy'. He got four cities off of us for nearly free! There's no way we were coming back from that unless he made a blunder of similar scale.

So, all in all I'm content. Learned an important lesson about the ancient era, fought honorably, not going to be our problem soon.

[AdrienIer]

I mean keep the cap more than two turns after he starts the attack. After that we're doomed of course, but yes I doubt Jowy has a shot at winning, at least we avoided handing him the game.

[Mardoc]

Jowy's...simultaneously overcautious and not cautious enough

His main big stacks...consolidated, rather than moving directly for the cap. That means we have the freedom to do things like, say, pick off a lone Vulture and an uncovered Worker



Then...ohmygosh!


I wish I hadn't retreated the Vulture-killer, but I was able to bring up one more chariot in range to hit Diplo next turn.

If Jowy doesn't react, I think we can actually raze it - I don't think it's ever had anything but Sumerian culture. He ought to be able to save the city by drywhipping a spear and/or splitting off a couple units from his deathstack to kill the southern chariot. But will he realize he needs to?

Edit: Even if he does realize, I think forcing a dry-whip of a 35 hammer unit is pretty much equivalent to killing a 35h unit? Still helps put him behind compared to Fenn.

I chose to advance a couple of our unpromoted axes to a point where they could kill spears, if Jowy uses those to kill the chariots. I don't think he can see them - I actually wish he could, though, because then he might bring spear for chariot plus a couple Vultures to cover the spear, and that would delay/shrink his capital strike force.



Realistically, this is all probably still a sideshow. But if we induce enough paranoia, maybe we'll buy a couple more turns while Jowy builds units to cover his rear on top of killing us. Maybe he even leaves units behind in Triceratops and gives us a chance to build enough axes to hold. Not likely, but there's a chance.

Plus, well, 85 hammers worth of Sumerian units killed this turn - much better than chariots were likely to do on the defense.



And thanks to Jowy's deathstack consolidation, we were able to chop the furs tile into another axe. Denying him the 75% defense tile might even become tactically relevant if he delays. We can't realistically counterattack if he simply Leeroy Jenkins us, but if he splits his forces and delays, maybe we'll have an opportunity.

So...yeah. Frustrating - one strategic blunder matters so much more than all the tactical cleverness I can invent. If only....

[AdrienIer]

I think the chariot 1N2E of tri will be killed by a spear but the other one is too far away which is great. He might have another unit coming to defend diplo which would make this kind of useless, but it's still some positive hammer trade which is the best we can hope for. Good job !

[Mardoc]

Jowy didn't do quite what I expected - although half of it was what I expected after sleeping on it. Didn't use *any* spears, instead peeled off a Vulture from his main stack, and the Vulture from Diplodocus. Because, of course, chariots only have their bonus v axes when attacking.

I...continued to play for the long shot by not only killing one of the Vultures in the way of Diplo, but covering the chariot with an axe. He's got to reinforce Diplo now, he can't kill the chariot IBT. Not even if he's lucky with the Vulture attacking an axe on a hill forest.



So between one thing and another, Jowy's whittled down the invading stack to only 17 vultures/4 spears. Which is...just close enough that I can dare to hope, but realistically probably still going to crush us. I almost wish I had pulled back the axe instead of covering the chariot, but what's done is done.

I will be sticking our last chariot inside the cap as a body to absorb one attacker, though. Because if we pull through, it's going to be by inches.