RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[Cull]

Seeing that all of us our on, can we have a chat on gmail? I get on Friendly Kittens. Say ASAP?

[Maniac Marshall]

After that, the turn rolled. So I played the turn exactly as we'd planned.

Here's what it looks like domestically:



BTW: I've named the chariot Salthi, after a model of Kilrathi Ship. Seems like the only "transportation device" units we'll have for ages, if ever, are chariots, so the naming convention fits imo.

Here, meanwhile, is the situation in the west, where our brave warrior Yalara Lionkiller is scouting:



In the east, I got to piecing information together and I came up with some stuff that I'll put in a final post.

[Maniac Marshall]

OK, so, I got thinking about that last email from Mail. Particularly this bit:

Moving on to diplomacy & contacts, our understanding is that Byzantium & England have warriors headed to meet us. The rendez-vous is the woods north of the barb in the screenshot we sent out recently. Furthermore, you'll soon meet Babylon's culture: the 2nd ring of their city takes in the marble in the same screenshot, and they are aware that you are on your way, and look forward to meeting you.

So... where is that. Let's look at that picture again and put a little bit on conjecture into it.



Babylon's boarder could be totally wrong, I'm just guessing. Perhaps the boarders aren't expanded, or the city is a tile or so farther south, but based on tile counting from the picture that Byz sent us earlier (see upthread)
that lets us pinpoint Bab's capital, I doubit it. I doubt they would have placed a city that but it's an educated guess.

Note this was a turn 50 piccie, so right before Mali popped its boarders, so i drew them in along with babylon's expected ones.

Now, where are we? Based on what we can observer from our current spot, we're here.



Looks to me that we're just "off the picture" to the southwest of the above one. ie. We'll be on the grass tile in the extreme SW when we next move.

So, if we move NE-NE-NE we should meet Babs boarders, and be next to the meeting tile

Of course, I could be totally nuts, or a barb could affect our route, but...

With this in mind, I rang up Chiller (his name is too long, so I'm calling him this going forward)

rbpitboss3spectres: oh hey
what's up
?
6:10 PM me: hey,you're heading towards mail now to meet them at their boarder right?
rbpitboss3spectres: yeah, we need to heal our chariot for a turn, but I believe that's the plan
6:11 PM just going to speed through the border between our lands to scout it, then north over yours to reach mali
if they can send a scouting unit to meet us half way, then great, if not then no biggie
me: well, i'm 95% sure that i've figured out what tile that is, though it's still in the fog for us
rbpitboss3spectres: everyone in the gang of 5 seems to have 1-2 contacts to go
6:12 PM me: acording to them, it's the forest tile north of the barb warrior they gave us a screenshot of
we're 4 turns from there with our other warrior
6:13 PM NE-NE-N-N and we'll be at that tile.
I'm not sure what screenshots you have of that area?
6:15 PM rbpitboss3spectres: err I think just the one you gave me a day or two ago
me: In any case, I was hoping that you could let england know that we're very close to where Mali says you'll be meeting them.
6:16 PM since they are aparently close to that spot as well if they just met your chariot not far from there.
rbpitboss3spectres: ah. England actually met a warrior of ours
opposite direction
6:17 PM me: ah =/
rbpitboss3spectres: when you get contact with babylon, they should be able to guide you to contact with england
I told england as much
they do wish to meet you
asap
6:18 PM if you have a screen shot with where we can meet mali over your borders, it'd be great, although non-essential
me: Well, we'll have contact with Babylon in 2-3 turns unless the barbs kill us first
rbpitboss3spectres: right
me: sure, hold on


7 minutes

6:26 PM me: ok, based on a screenie from mali, and emails exchanged, we believe this is accurate.
6:27 PM http://yfrog.com/66meetingplace
6:29 PM err
http://yfrog.com/66meetingplacej
6:32 PM so if we move NE-NE-NE we should be at Babylons boarder just SW of the ? tile
6:34 PM rbpitboss3spectres: aha
okay
england would then currently be a few tiles past them
so we will either reach babylon with the warrior that met england or the chariot, from opposite sides
6:35 PM actually we may all have units in the same location :D
6:36 PM me: if you could advise England of our warriors location, we'd be very greatful
6:37 PM rbpitboss3spectres: sure, I'll shoot them an email
6:39 PM me: I'm just paranoid about missing them... you could probably tell lol
6:40 PM rbpitboss3spectres: I think everyone wants to meet everone else pretty quickly
gotta firm up tech paths now that we're getting into the expensive stuff
find out what everyone knows regarding the land
6:41 PM me: My computer is lagging a bit, so I might restart in a few minutes. I'm working on an update to the thread right now
6:42 PM rbpitboss3spectres: same actually
on both accounts

All in all, I think things are looking good

[RefSteel]

That screenshot of Byz reveals a LOT, such as city placement, level of devolpment, resources, etc.

Yup. If were planning to chariot-rush them to ensure we don't get 'phracted, we could start cold right now and have an excellent chance of success, due in no small part to this intel. Lucky for them, we're FRIENDLY Kittens!

I'm looking forward to contact with Babylon; they've got a solid civ (especially for this map) and terrific leader (if played correctly) and will be a force to be reckoned with. I really want to know their ETA on Alphabet, as that's the limiting factor on our first giant tech trade.

On the idea of a 5-team tech alliance: We DO need long-term allies, but let's not sign anything in blood, especially not jumping at the first four teams we meet. (Though there are definitely good things about them!) We should work on becoming REALLY close with one or two teams, even if we're going with a five-team alliance, and all the trades in any alliance should be open to trading outside. (That said, we're DEFINITELY in favor of a first five-way trade with these guys, and in a game like this, that might mean a de-facto trading alliance anyway.

(And good call on the chat invitation, Cull. So done.)

Other notes:

According to Byz, Babylon thinks the map script is Team Battleground. Maniac believed the same, and now I do as well (suitably enlarged, of course; a Huge Team Battleground map is the right shape, but 12 tiles too small in each dimension*).

*- How sure am I really that the map's 64x64? I didn't test like 65x65, did I? No, I didn't. It MIGHT be possible that it's 65 by 64 or even 65x65, I guess, but I'm going with occam's razor on this one. (Smaller than 64-square is impossible for victory screen percentage reasons.) But if so, the amount of water on the map would have to be consistent with what Byz has seen so far pretty much across the map. Whereas we hadn't seen a single water tile until we saw the Byz screenie! (We knew they were there, of course, but also that they were few and far between.)

Given that, and the virtual ruler on which us + Byz + Mali + Babs appear to be planted, my guess is there are actually FOUR "rows" of civs....

[Maniac Marshall]

Partially played the turn, but did not move Jassana or Prrsha. I moved Yalara 1N and it looks like it was the right move. Or possibly, they were both right moves. The forest NW connects to another forest NE of it. Can't tell if the other way was a dead end or not.

We're waiting on Mali to inform us of the whereabouts of that troublesome barb before moving Prrsha, and I'm really not sure where to station Jassana. Possibly we should move her NW?

Screenshots in about 14hrs or so.

[RefSteel]

Turn finished after learning that the barb moved away. More screenshots later if anyone asks or if we feel like posting them.

[EDIT: I originally wrote, "rego or Krill or somebody" below because those were our first two guesses - mine and Maniac's - about who started the ball rolling for the giant alliance. Looking at it again though, it sounds like accusing them of something, which was not intended, and would have been stupid. Even if they started it (by no means guaranteed) they needed six other teams to sign on - and frankly, it could have happened totally organically. And we still have the information at second or third hand. They may not be executing this as thoroughly as they could and might wish to. It could still just be tech trades, in which case ... it'll develop more slowly into the uber alliance of doom as the reluctant participants realize too late with each step what they've gotten themselves into and why they can't get out - and the participants who knew what they were getting into in advance laugh and laugh.]

In the meantime: Swiss (Capac of Mali) reports that the 8 teams in the not-by-the-desert rows decided to form an uber-alliance because everyone knows those make the game so much more fun. (Actually because it's the way to win, and most people are more intersted in winning than playing, and no one listened to people like Krill and me during the planning stages when we tried to set up rules to disincentivize this type of stupidity.)

We can beat them, but we'll have to do an incredible job of daisy-chain coordination, and if they're smart and attentive, they'll make it at least 9v7 and make things really miserable (if they haven't already). And none of the Friendly Kittens have time to run ONE team (we've all had to cover for each other from time to time) - never mind eight (five of whom we haven't even met yet).

I'll try to pull some specific plans together later this afternoon if I decide it's worth the effort. Otherwise, we can shrug, play the best game we can under the circumstances, and just take it slow and easy since we'll want to savor every turn before they come down on us with massive armies and a nine tech lead. I'm happy either way, really.

[Cull]

Turn finished after learning that the barb moved away. More screenshots later if anyone asks or if we feel like posting them.

In the meantime: rego or Krill or somebody decided to start an 8-team uber-alliance because everyone knows those make the game so much more fun. (Actually because it's the way to win, and most people are more intersted in winning than playing, and no one listened to people like Krill and me during the planning stages when we tried to set up rules to disincentivize this type of stupidity.)

We can beat them, but we'll have to do an incredible job of daisy-chain coordination, and if they're smart and attentive, they'll make it at least 9v7 and make things really miserable (if they haven't already). And none of the Friendly Kittens have time to run ONE team (we've all had to cover for each other from time to time) - never mind eight (five of whom we haven't even met yet).

I'll try to pull some specific plans together later this afternoon if I decide it's worth the effort. Otherwise, we can shrug, play the best game we can under the circumstances, and just take it slow and easy since we'll want to savor every turn before they come down on us with massive armies and a nine tech lead. I'm happy either way, really.

How did you find out?

Also, I'm personally against joining some uber-alliance unless I have to. This case, with at LEAST 9 players in, I think we should try joining. Otherwise,

[RefSteel]

How did you find out?

Swiss (Mali) let us know. He's met England (who abandoned the Five Teams Who Until Recently Knew Only of Each Other) and (recently) Carthage, who both are now in the super-alliance. According to Swiss, Babylon was the first in our little group to find out (also from England).

The geography favors it (and them) - it sounds like we're not only on an enlarged Team Battleground but one with the tundra/ice reduced or eliminated, while the desert in the "middle" remains, giving the "northernmost" and "southernmost" rows a huge advantage if they cooperate in this sort of thing. Which they reportedly are doing. The bit about the map is speculation on my part, but it does appear to be away-from-desert rows vs. near-desert rows (to the extent the near-desert rows know what's happening). Until I actually saw the ruler-straight horizontal line along which we, Byz, Babs, and Mali are planted (maybe 1 tile north or south either way) I assumed teams would be scattered in a more sane fasion, especially with an odd number to start the game. But nope. (sigh)

Also, I'm personally against joining some uber-alliance unless I have to. This case, with at LEAST 9 players in, I think we should try joining. Otherwise,

In theory, there are only 8 so far. Also, I'm just one member of the team, but I say let them come. As I said, if we're willing to make the effort, and the other seven not-in teams agree, we can beat them. And if the other teams aren't willing, or our execution fails, or we all just say, "Meh, have fun with your alliance" and play the games we want to play until they come and kill us, they can dance around on the ashes and say, "Yay, we did another uber-alliance game, hurray" until Civ 5 comes out - maybe leaving them enough time to turn on each other for a while, or maybe not. I don't want to be part of that. But of course that's just me.

Also, they're not going to want us on board unless they see a credible counter-alliance forming, which means we have to form a credible counter-alliance first, in which case why join THEM when we've got our own thing going?

[Cull]

In theory, there are only 8 so far. Also, I'm just one member of the team, but I say let them come. As I said, if we're willing to make the effort, and the other seven not-in teams agree, we can beat them. And if the other teams aren't willing, or our execution fails, or we all just say, "Meh, have fun with your alliance" and play the games we want to play until they come and kill us, they can dance around on the ashes and say, "Yay, we did another uber-alliance game, hurray" until Civ 5 comes out - maybe leaving them enough time to turn on each other for a while, or maybe not. I don't want to be part of that. But of course that's just me.

Also, they're not going to want us on board unless they see a credible counter-alliance forming, which means we have to form a credible counter-alliance first, in which case why join THEM when we've got our own thing going?

I HATE the whole "uber-alliance" takes out small teams then procedes to rip each other out, so I'm in agreement with you Ref. Just throwing out an idea.

I say try to organize a counter-alliance would be our best bet outside joining them. Try to send out diplo to the others?

[Maniac Marshall]

I'm too wiped out to repost the post that the forums ate earlier. I spend an hour on it only for it to go poofies Maybe tomorrow.

Meanwhile, the turn has rolled. I completed the worker actions and moved Yalara, who found yet ANOTHER resourse for Byz lol. I also moved Prrsha. Because the Barb was in a forest SE of her when the turn started, I knew it was safe to move her NE. When I did so I discovered Babylon's boarders exactly where we thought they would be. Baring a panther attack, we WILL meet Babylon next turn!

I did not move Jassana. Not sure where we want her. I also did not move salthi yet for 2 reasons. One, Byz is supposed to provide a picture of their scouting in the south, which nearly fills in to ours i'm told, and two, Chiller tells me Exploit has a Woody II warrior down there somewehre heading to meet us. I think it might be wise to leave the chariot home for now. I know our scouting need is great, but, lets not leave ourselves completely open to invasion...