PB37 Signup Thread

[Dark Savant]

It's been ages since I've participated at RB, but I'd like to get back into action, if you are willing to accept someone completely new to multiplayer.  I've read/lurked all kinds of Civ 4 MP activity in the past so I won't be hopeless; I've just never actually played a MP game.

[Krill]

Just checking, you are capable of running a DLL mod ie bootcamp if you have a mac? Otherwise, no problems, welcome aboard

[Dark Savant]

I'm running on a Windows machine, so I was presuming that wouldn't be a problem.

I faded out of the community partly because my old machine couldn't quite handle Civ 4 and could barely take Civ 5 at all.

[Krill]

Yeah, that's fine. Just make sure you put the mod into C:/Programs/Firaxis/Civ 4/BtS/Mods folder (and not into my documents). Someone wrote a post about how to setup a shortcut to open civ with the mod loaded to make it quicker to log into the game. Some kind soul that has a functioning memory might even post that for us.

[Dark Savant]

Yeah, that's fine. Just make sure you put the mod into C:/Programs/Firaxis/Civ 4/BtS/Mods folder (and not into my documents). Someone wrote a post about how to setup a shortcut to open civ with the mod loaded to make it quicker to log into the game. Some kind soul that has a functioning memory might even post that for us.

You can just copy the regular Windows shortcut and add this to "Target":

mod="\RtR Mod 2.0.8.3"

Now I need to familiarize myself with the mod's differences.

[Mardoc]

9x9 isn't actually that big. Once capital borders expand you can see a minimum of 7x7, so it does not affect the decision to scout deep or scout around the capital. It does mean that every player knows every city location that can be settled on t1 and that is the point. Double food capitals and plains hills should be calibrated to be better than anything nearby because that's pretty good terrain. It's better than leaving something like triple food and lux that people wander into the fog and luck into. Doing this should remove the luck of moving the starting settler into the fog.

Yes, I understand your reasoning.  And agree that the map maker should try to avoid letting a capital move be the best choice.  I just disagree about 'isn't that big', given the other settings.

The minimum distance is actually around what is built into most mapscripts anyway.

9x9 leaves all of two tiles between your revealed area and your neighbor's area.  Hard to do much creative with a two tile strip.  Can't leave much more space and still meet the 120-150 tiles request. Maybe could bump the gap up to a 5-6 tile strip with enough water - although then circumnavigation becomes an issue.

[Krill]

Mardoc, how about this:

• Mapmaker makes the 9x9 area centred on the central plains hill containing the settler and scout.
  
• Mapmaker posts screenshots of all the 9x9 areas for lurkers to double check that moving will not get a better capital.
  
• Mapmaker makes any changes identified as necessary (specifically, no triple food locations)
  
• Mapmaker finalises the start areas and posts screenshots of the 5x5 area centred on the plains hill containing thee settler and scout for snajkepick purposes
  
• Mapmaker finishes teh rest of the map for game start.

The important thing is that players know that moving will not get them a better capital location so praise be unto the map maker, please don't give people shitty starts. That 11 tiles minimum distance is basically built into the mapscript, and that's a minimum. Players can be further from others that's fine. Does this make more sense?

[Mardoc]

Yes, that proposal is basically a more formalized version of mapmaking best practices as I understand them, and I'd be fine with it. (edit: and if taotao ends up making the map my opinions don't govern anyway).  At least for a 'standard' game where the mapmaker's main goal is to provide the canvas on which the players provide the interesting decisions, which is the usual mandate anyway.

Well, I'd aim to have lurker feedback on everything, not just the 9x9, but starting with snakepick readiness is logical.  It's definitely easier to get feedback when you give the lurkers specific challenges like 'find the accidental better capital' than 'what do you think of this?'.

Remind me, what are the RtR changes that specifically affect terrain balancing?  I know that pastures were made easier to get and hunting camps harder, and ancient worker techs are all cheaper.  Did the automatic 2-hammer capital stay, or was that removed?  I seem to recall a bunch of changes around workboats but I don't know what you landed on.  Etc?

Now I need to think about how to make a balanced toroid that is still interesting enough to inspire Commodore to write vignettes .

[Krill]

Alot of what you mention is not in the 2.x line, it was only implemented in the 3.x line for PB27.

Hunting enables.pastures
Ah enables camps and reveals horses
Slaving the second pop point in a double whip gives 20 hammers is double whip gives 50 base hammers, triple whip gives 70 base hammers

Capitals do not get automatic second hammer need to plant on plains hill or two hammer tile like plains marble, stone or ivory. 3 hammer tiles exist is stone plains hill. Avoid 3 hammer start tiles because the are incredibly strong.

The easiest way to make that map is to just imagine a donut map with toroidal wrapping: the donut still looks like a donut but boats can cross the poles on the y-wrap not just the x-wrap. And not dumping people in the centre of the donut.

[Dreylin]

The important thing is that players know that moving will not get them a better capital location so praise be unto the map maker

But if they know that going in, why not just settle the thing for them? Is the illusion of choice /that/ important?