[PB37 SPOILER] Coeurva, Bacchus -- Cyrus of Carthage

[Coeurva]

Idle thoughts as we're (still) waiting for the reload:

I'm getting cold feet about the Savant settle again... dammit. There's quite some leeway for W4 to throw down roads, at least; we should actually be able to found the city with roads in place, going from Sicil via Rhapsody's north (oasis gets in the way, but still the best route) to that site.

Might want to send the first axe towards the south after all to protect against CML (two cities, two warriors -- that doesn't make me feel safe), since Sicil and Rhapsody can probably team up afterwards to reinforce the Savant border city, and the roads will serve to get the second axe up there roughly as quickly as the first would without the roads. We'd be settling with only one axe in place, but Savant has none yet, they take 8t to reach the site from Ironfist, they'll probably lack Shock, and we'll be fortified on a hill. The south, by contrast, has two cities on flatland. The river helps alleviate forking dangers, but still.

Will have to check if CML's MFG suggests copper being worked. It actually helps us here that he sees our graphs and thus knows we've had copper for a while.

EDIT: Replayed turn, and used opportunity to lay down some signs. If we forgo the road from Sicil to Rhapsody for a while, we can get the south connected to Rhapsody (and copper) by T56. Earlier if we use W2 to help out (might have to, depending on how the barb moves). The northern site gets connected just on time, T58/59 depending on whether W3 should help out or not.

Since "Shag-hair'd" didn't fit, we're going with "Shag Vermin"; now we have the second least appropriate city name in the game.

[Coeurva]

T45

No screenshots, sorry.

Dark Savant has stuffed a worker warrior into the capital ("Zom"), moved the other warrior (Zam) onto the tile 3 of his capital, and used a worker with an Arabic name (that I forgot) to road that tile (!) -- I moved our warrior 9 in response, since he could now double-hit him. (He also seems to have consciously avoided double-moving us -- impressive, since he could have had something to gain here.) We can't get past the cultural borders of Ironfist and any attack would be hopeless; let's see if we can meet someone east of his position. (Scouting his jungled land bridge might also allow us to reason about our own, if not quite safely )

All in all, we've gained visibility on his capital and provoked him to build a road he doesn't need right now. Small tactical success. The road points towards the plains hill we don't want him to settle, though, and he'll probably be more wary of our presence now.

CML has probably mined his copper now; considerable MFG increase. He's gained another 2,000 soldiers, but since his score has been stagnating for a few turns, that's not Animal Husbandry. We're behind our two neighbours in all economic categories now, according to the graphs (can take screenshots if desired, since this is a rather vague statement). Strange that he'd still lack Wheel; maybe that 3000 increase was Wheel + pop + a warrior dying after all. But perhaps he's teching towards the Oracle right now.

The barb warrior at Vermin has just wandered off to the east again. Good for us; I would have liked the second XP on Avoirdupois but not to move W2 away. Pasture due in 3t. Swapped build to granary as mentioned. An extra 3h is 10% of the way, after all (obviously whip the thing; won't get to size4 here before we accumulate 30h, as food surplus is only +3 with both cows pastured).

Pottery done. We'll save gold for 3t (~11 gpt), then tech Writing at -4 gpt, 10t estimate. (Can put T47 into 100% research, since we're forced to work the oasis there) -- So expect Writing around T58. Convenient enough.

[Bacchus]

I think I've last seen graphs something like 10t ago, so would be good to get a look at them across the yields.

[Coeurva]

There should be a recent Power graph in the last post of page 20; not much has changed there except for CML increasing by 1000, then 2000 on the last turns, Culture shows nothing new; CML doesn't have anything producing culture (besides the palace) and Savant probably has a barracks somewhere.

[Bacchus]

Ah, of course. We are saving gold, hence the drop in GNP (-20% at minimum), plus Savant is getting the culture in it. I'm guessing with his strong worker focus he also has a trade route established, which is no small matter. Still, we have a massive accumulated GNP advantage over him, so we can afford to be slightly later to his level, but we definitely want to pick up on the commerce. The CY situation will be adressed soon enough, again, we are hardly behind in total foodhammers to date.

[Coeurva]

If we want to increase our commerce, we need to improve and work the silver at Vermin; if the first build is a granary (what else?), it might actually pay off to improve the silver before the plains cow, and only whip for overflow (relinquishing the pcow at size3 / T58 for almost 30h of OF; then regrow in 3t, 13/26 bin). Could put this OF into a settler (partial build), grow 3t, then finish settler at 5f + 7h + 3h (IMP) for a T66 settler (T65 maybe), who can settle either the whaling/pork village or Rhapsody's rice as we finish Sailing, and whip a galley. Could also use it for another unit, or a library (unlocking copper; not really a good city to run specialists, though).

EDIT: On the other hand, improving the plains cow first gives Vermin time to build another worker for the south, and I'd like to have another worker there. W5 arrives on T56, not in time for B-West (T52 or T53), so W2 will have to supply B-West while Vermin has no tiles to grow onto for size3. We also need two chops into the library at B-West. Hm...

[Bacchus]

I think cow before silver but still grow Vermin to three and then whip the silver off for worker.

[Coeurva]

T46

Arithmetician has found what I presume is Savant's third city (since the second city has a barracks, and we're seeing first-ring borders), 88888 of the tile that says "Dark Savant T5" in other screenshots, and it's on a hill (plains hill, I think) with a single-tile plains hill for access from our side; blocked off by peaks and lakes otherwise. You might get a screenshot later today, but more likely on T47 when we gain visibility.

Meanwhile, Ames-Ace will wander back towards the plains hill that we want him to fortify on (arrives T52). Savant is farming Ironfist's rice using Banazîr Galbasi (5t to finish), obviously covered by a warrior. I forgot whether that was Zam or Zom.

I've moved Avoirdupois out of Vermin to scout a bit. Fortification would have been nice to have, but more so is map knowledge and sentry-netting. The barb warrior is out of sight now; would rather fight him than have him veer towards Rhapsody.

Demographics are actually looking better. Equal with Savant again in Crop Yield, and CML's spike in MFG was temporary, whereas CY went up again. He seems to have used his copper tile for producing a warrior. Power shows another 1000 increase for him. He might found his third city on this turn.

Savant has been pouring all his EP into us again for the last 2t (now 64/68 ratio; we're the latter figure). We have his attention alright. I've responded by doing the same, but we obviously want to keep graphs on CML (currently 92/92 with 59 required).

CivStats shows that a lot of other people seem to have been whipping lately. Might be the settler whips you predicted.

EDIT: Graphs seem to be accurate for the beginning of the turn before. Those above are from T45, but didn't record the T44 settlement of Shag Vermin and accompanying increase in food. (So drafted units would also show up with a 2t delay. Good to keep in mind.)

EDIT: Vermin micro. Sandbox verification pending done

Code:

Turn -- Tile Yields -- Bin -- Production -- W2 actions
T44 211 301 xxx xxx 3/22  warrior 1/15      W2 pasture gcow 4t
T45 211 301 xxx xxx 6/22  granary 1/60
T46 211 301 xxx xxx 9/22  granary 2/60
T47 211 421 xxx xxx 13/22 granary 5/60
T48 211 421 xxx xxx 17/22 granary 8/60      W2 >3 pasture pcow 4t
T49 211 421 xxx xxx 21/22 granary 11/60
T50 211 421 xxx xxx 3/24  granary 14/60
T51 211 421 xxx xxx 8/24  granary 20/60
T52 211 421 330 xxx 13/24 granary 26/60     W2 >1 mine silver 4t
T53 211 421 330 xxx 18/24 granary 32/60
T54 211 421 330 xxx 23/24 granary 38/60
T55 211 421 330 xxx 4/26  granary 44/60
T56 211 421 330 215 9/26  granary 51/60     W2 >78
T57 211 421 330 215 14/24 granary 58/60     W2 mine ghill 4t
T58 211 421 330 whp 14/24 granary 94/60
T59 211 421 330 xxx 14/24 worker  45/60
T60 211 421 330 xxx 14/24 worker  56/60
T61 211 421 330 xxx 14/24 worker  67/60

Unfortunately we overshoot the target 13/26f by one. It might be better to improve the river grass mine first for that reason (low food surplus biases optimum towards the left), to work it on T56 and a lake on T57 (comparative loss of 7 commerce) to hit 13/26 exactly (B-West can then make immediate use of the mine for building the library), and add the silver after regrowth on T62. Then we double-whip the city every time it grows to 4 or 5; CHM + garrison + hooked silver should easily keep the happiness under the cap.

(14/24f means regrowth in 2t after whip, but then we're at 5/26 bin. It comes out worse if the goal is to grow onto size4 as soon as possible.)

[Bacchus]

The final trade with going for hill mine over silver mine seems to be to gain a hammer in place of 8 commerce, I don't think that's a good trade, especially given the circumstances.

Edit: unless we also gain hammers in B-west, but wouldn't that city still be busy growing at that stage? Or I guess the food improvement won't be online yet, so we might as well gain the necessary hammers now. That should speed the library up a couple of turns, so yeah, that makes it going for mine first definitely worth it.

[Coeurva]

Thinking about it, we're not going to have W2 around to improve anything at Vermin past the cows, since improving the sheep at B-West (found T53) is more important than 7 commerce -- we'll work a riverside plains tile (111) on T56, then the lake (202) on T57, then whip off the unimproved tile. At least that optimizes the granary; overflow goes into a worker, and then we'll pick up silver on regrowth.

Forgot to mention this, but Savant's city that we found this turn is working improved pigs.