RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[Maniac Marshall]

OK, well, the barbs moved in a really bad way... a way they only moved twice out of like 20 tests I ran. This practically forced me to attack one of the barbs on a hill if I didn't want to disrupt our worker plans. It was 95.6%... well, he won, but got knocked down to 1.6/4. He DOES have a promotion comming, which will help, but basically he's out of commission for attacking for a couple turns. To make matters worse, one of the barbs disappeared, but 2 more showed up... so we're STILL facing 8 barbs. I wanted to start building a library in temmink, but had to set an axe prebuild instead. Also, the 2nd unit from Pride Rock now HAS to be an axe, as it may need to fight two warriors in the same turn . We may also have to double whip 2 more units out of the capitol... yeah, could get ugly

Here is the situation:

[RefSteel]

I only became aware the workers were grouped when I saw the image you sent me (the one I posted on the previous page) of the 7ish barbs. I never group workers (or anything else for that matter) on purpose, and I hate it when the game decides that something (usually a double click, I think) means I want to group everything on a tile. I'm almost certain that I didn't do it in this case ... but I guess I've been known to be wrong before.

We'll handle the barb issues. That's just the game telling us we need more military. The timing is bad, but ... barb timing has been bad for us from turn 5 onward in this game. We'll deal with it.

The bigger issues are real life issues. Maniac and I are both going to have to continue rolling back our involvement, very likely rolling back at a much-accelerated pace. That's going to make it difficult for us to keep up with the diplo needed for our plan (such as it is) to succeed.

On our team's end, that is. Mali and the Periwinkles (Babylon) are officially in the Hydra. They're doing calendar and currency, so that's serious business. The Spectres (Byz) are furious. I chatted with one of them a few moments ago. I started trying to explain that I thought Babylon and Mali had a point, and I wanted to go on to say that they were effectively destroying the Hydra by joining it. I kinda said those things eventually, but not as clearly as I wanted to, because ... as mentioned, Byz was furious. I also strongly implied we were taken by surprise, which of course we weren't. I know that's standard diplomatic procedure, but I hate it. The main points of what I told Byz were true: That we're not in the Hydra, that we still like Babylon and Mali regardless, that we still want to break the Hydra into little pieces. I tried to explain that I think Babs and Mali still want the same thing, but I don't think they were listening.

As for us, we're dealing with Hydra/CAN civs on an individual basis, and it's going to be exciting, in the sense of impossible-to-do-because-we-don't-have-enough-time. But we're basically taking over doing Metal Casting for India because as long as Maniac can deal with those barbs (I have confidence that he'll handle them brilliantly) we're going to beat India's ETA by a country mile. And that's obviously a tech that civs are going to need, and that they'll want when we can get it rather than waiting for India - so, we've got a chance. We cleared the deal with India, so we actually shouldn't even be racing them for it; it's going to be us or nothing. That's the theory, at least.

We met Portugal last turn; I don't think we've communicated - no time. Krill has also been brilliant, and set up e-mail addresses that will forward e-mails from us to other teams he's met, and vice-versa. He can check them, turn off the forwarding and do it manually or not at all, set up filters for what they'll let through, etc. so it's the same as sending messages to him and asking him to relay them, except he doesn't have to spend all his time doing Kitten diplomacy. I'm going to try to send some diplomessages out on those lines tonight. Hopefully.

Right now, we're kind of friends or potential-partners-ish with everyone. Carthage might think they want our lands, but they don't know where our lands are yet really. And the maintenance costs would eat them for breakfast, Pacal and all, if they got them. Long-term, they're probably an enemy, but you never know. So far, we haven't even met them! In any case, being friends with everyone is a ridiculously dangerous game because it means you're friends with everyone's enemies. I really hope Byzantium doesn't attack Babylon out of spite (I tried to communicate that, probably not too well) ... because if they do, we're on Kyan's side. We don't want to turn on Byz, but given the choice between Kyan (who's been amazing, and is without doubt our civ's best friend in-game) and the belligerent civ (and if it happens, the aggressors) that's been our most difficult ally to deal with all game (they were the ones Cull and Maniac feared would attack us if we didn't attack India - they then got a NAP with India as soon as Bison Pass was taken, while their chariot survived by being out of position and ours was killed - their eagerness [and Sumeria's before Yaz took over] to fight and antagonize Hydra civs has to my mind been the biggest weakness of Heracles). There's a chance - I think a very strong chance - that they'll just keep up the belligerence too ... in which case, they're going to be in trouble this game.

As for Rome (team SsS) ... I think they're doomed. They delayed settling their iron because they didn't think they could protect the city that would claim it without spears. They might be right, but at the rate the Hydra techs, the window for Praets may be closed before they hit the field. Catapults + Axes handle even Aggressive Praets, and unless I miss my guess, someone in the Hydra who'd been saving money for a while before that started on Construction last turn.

And JANK (Inca)? They picked Joao of Inca on Emperor difficulty, and then the map turned out to be a toroid about the size of the washer for the faucet on your kitchen sink. There are ways to deal with that, but attempting an axe rush on a neighbor who has eight allies is not one of them. We haven't even met these guys, but it's probably safe to say they're not a power in this game. Like us, they got a bunch of techs without giving anything themselves. Unlike us, they have no prospect of ever paying the beaker debt, with or without interest. And when it comes down to it, the war we fought - even just with a single unit - was more important and more clearly done for Heracles than what they did. It may well be that India's attack on Sumeria was delayed so they could get enough units to be sure of handling Bhurak as well as the Sumerian defenses ... and Alphabet came in - to the beaker - on the last turn that would allow Yaz to trade it to everyone in CANT.

[Maniac Marshall]

Just a heads up that I might have some difficulty doing much with the game the next 48hrs. Aparently the transmission blew in one of our cars on the way home from my sons... good thing we left early this time. Gotta love those $111 bills to get it and us towed home =/

Anyhow, I need to investigate if it's worth fixing and stuff, tomorrow before work. The explorer has almost 450K miles on it, so it may not be. Will have to spend time investigating. I can still play the turn the next 2 days, but that's it as far as what I should be counted on to do till at least Wed. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Off to go get the stuff out of the car. =/

[Speaker]

The explorer has almost 450K miles on it

Talk about an aptly-named car...

[Maniac Marshall]

Quick post so I can remember. We have signed an MPP with Babylon in case of any aggression from Byz over the diplomatic situation. We both hope this will not be needed... We did not set a turn limit on this.

[RefSteel]

While we're posting agreements here, I just sent this to England, following a really enjoyable chat:

Dear Lords of Avalon (CHASM/England) -
Formalizing the agreements we made by chat earlier this evening:
1) We'll trade techs to each other: Archery on request, Monarchy and Metal Casting when each come in. The Friendly Kittens also agree to delay revolting to Hereditary Rule if necessary to avoid delaying Metal Casting's ETA, and in principle we'll continue trading techs with each other (which ones, and whether for other techs or cash or whatever, can be worked out as plans become clearer) as the game continues.
2) We agree to a NAP, to last at least through turn 100, but automatically renewing indefinitely. If either side finds that the terms of the agreement are no longer acceptable at any time after turn 100, they can tell the other so, leading to a 10 turn grace period with the NAP still in effect for cooling down and/or renegotiation; the NAP would then expire at the end of the grace period if no new agreement can be reached, or as agreed by both sides in a new agreement.
3) The terms of the NAP are that neither side will attack the other, nor support an attack on the other, for instance by gifting units to a third party to join an attack on the other or granting right of passage to third-party units that will participate in such an attack. The point of this agreement is for our civs to actually work together peacefully.
Is that everything? Let us know if I left anything out or said something poorly - or of course if we're in agreement!
Very Truly Yours,
Ref Eriksson for Ragnar of the Friendly Kittens (Maya)

I'll try to post additional updates soonish, but RL time is very limited. If any lurkers have specific requests, e.g. for overview screenshots, diplo reports, better explanations of strategy than my recent ramblings, etc. - please let us know. Avoid spoilers and leading questions as always.

Oh, and before you ask: I didn't realize this until I asked Maniac (after my chat with England) but apparently our standing army still consists of two chariots (Dralthi and Krant) and three warriors: Jasana garrisoning Fierias, and our two scouting warriors (Yalara and Prrsha). We'll, uh, have actual military units (at least a promotable c1 axe and a 0-xp c1 Holkan) T73.

And lest anyone's got a really leading question they want to ask: Yes, we're aware that Byz might decide that our decision for how to deal with the hydra counts as betrayal, and therefore might attack us. Maybe the veteran Indian chariots will even participate, though that won't happen immediately. I hope it doesn't happen at all from either of them, and don't really think it will, but we're aware of the possibility, and making such preparations as we can under the circumstances just in case. The game situation tends (and games like this altogether tend) to breed paranoia. No, we aren't aware of the dozen chariots Carthage is about to rain down on us from the northeast from just out of our line of sight. (Before you rush to check their thread: We really aren't aware of it, and really aren't expecting it, and haven't - quite - met them in-game yet.)

On India: Maniac, I don't think it matters whether we have a NAP with the DJs until T80; we have a game-enforced peace treaty with them for basically the same duration, don't we?

In any case, it's looking like no matter how bad things get, we won't be among the first three civs to leave the game. No, I'm not going to explain that comment just yet; you universal lurkers presumably know all about it already anyway. Nothing to do with us of course even if we want it to be - which we don't. We're busy, obviously.

[T-hawk]

The explorer has almost 450K miles on it

Talk about an aptly-named car...

Yeah but an Explorer can't get Woodsman III for quicker repairs.

<rimshot>

[Maniac Marshall]

Oh, and before you ask: I didn't realize this until I asked Maniac (after my chat with England) but apparently our standing army still consists of two chariots (Dralthi and Krant) and three warriors: Jasana garrisoning Fierias, and our two scouting warriors (Yalara and Prrsha). We'll, uh, have actual military units (at least a promotable c1 axe and a 0-xp c1 Holkan) T73.

When the turn rolls to 72 we'll have a C1 barracks Axe from Firerias, and a C1 Holkan from Pride Rock.

On turn 73, we'll get a C1 axe from Pride Rock. This was GOING to be a holkan, but since it now must take on 2 warriors at once it seems, it will need to be an axe. Depending on what happens in the south, we might also (unfortunately) get a single whipped C1 Axe from Temminck this turn.

Glad we did not give a 15 turn estimate, as with all the whipping and the delay hooking the silver, a 17-18 turn research time is looking more and more like a possibility.

BTW Ref, I took a personal day from work today. Too much going on, so I'll be around other than doing my taxes.

Oh, and this came in while I was typing... $1500 to fix the transmission... Logic tells me to take it out and shoot it, but I decided to fix it anyhow =/

[Maniac Marshall]

OK, so, after the reload, the barbs moved differently... but, only in the north. The red boxes indicate barb = same, red X = there used to be a barb here, and blue = barb where there was none before.



As you can see, there are only 2 differences, and both actually offer us more breathing room. I see no reason not to play THIS turn exactly as we did before, but next turn, we might do a couple things differently than we would have before. Mainly, depending on where the NW barb moves, we migh build a Holkan instead of an Axe in PR.

[Maniac Marshall]

You know, I made a fairly weedy worker action because I can't count to 4... costs us a road that could be useful... sigh. Fallout of the whole grouped worker thing and me not checking the new plan close enough. I think we'll survive, but damn, I'm pissed off at myself. I need more sleep. Fortunately, I don't work that much the next week, so hopefully I'll not do something that stupid again.

Meanwhile I've asked Mali if that chariot is still anywhere where we can have it, or even if they wanted to pick a barb, ANY barb and whack it for us.