[PB37 SPOILER] Coeurva, Bacchus -- Cyrus of Carthage

[Coeurva]

chumchu, we don't even have Horseback Riding. Maybe galleons will prove an entertaining substitute.

T134 short report: We've fired the Golden Age (260 gpt at 0% sci, up ~160). Rhapsody will grow two scientists using some starvation -- Sherry isn't powerful enough -- 1t before the GA ends, so that we can go back to Slavery without penalty and whip off our workshops. We'll use the turns of employing full scientists to put beakers into Compass, turn on sci for Machinery, and then overflow from Compass into Optics, then bulb almost immediately (once we've whipped caravels everywhere). That's the plan. We can yet switch to emphasizing Guilds instead, but we'll research that anyway.

Actually, there's a nuance: I think we should tech Monotheism along the way (with copious overflow once again) to switch into OrgRel before the GA ends (we have Confucianism in Sicil and Whitehall); I think that civic shall prove quite useful when we unlock observatories early, because it allows us to export cheap demi-forges (not demiurges) from Sicil. Finishing Monotheism means finishing Compass (from overflow) or vice versa, so I think we shall turn on sci on T136, finish Compass, finish Mono at 0% the turn after, research Machinery, and come up slightly short of finishing Optics so that we have 1t to whip caravels, then use the Astro bulb to upgrade them in the queue.

Savant has built the Mausolosseum in Garrote Gorge (north of Ironfist); I think he still has a GSci lying around (Sakharov) to fire his own GA. Hebona took a sneak peek into Sweet Water (the island straight east of Chehalis). What's inside? One chariot. The city isn't very noteworthy -- the only resource is a forested deer -- but depending on Regna's garrison, we might be able to divert two swords there.

We need the galley inside Spire to go towards Maudlin Sphinx, fetch 1-2 longbows, and ferry those into Chehalis before the peace with Krill expires.

Trade offers sent: stone<->marble to Gavagai, OB to Yuri. I'm reluctant to backstab Yuri for Yekaterinburg (he has also founded "Yakutsk", no idea where) due the fight he's giving dtay's juggernaut, but I don't want Joey or dtay to take it, either.

EDIT: dtay has also been graced with a Great General in Gobwin Knob.

[Bacchus]

Caravels don't upgrade to Galleons.

Once we have Galleons (and we should have 4 NavII galleons after our next general, remember to build at least 1 galley in vassalage, maybe 3), we definitely should proceed very quickly to consolidate our presence on the western sea all the way to dtay, and hopefully including some of his islands. We need to start thinking about the troops these galleons will hold too. C2-Amphi knights are nice, but maybe too far away. So probably swords for now?

OrgRel is not bad for Cothons, Courthouses and ships, but I am a little scared of the maintenance. Also just count up the beakers.

On 0% science we are 2nd GNP. Ouch.

EDIT: Should Sicil be building Wealth, as opposed to say, Longbows?

[Coeurva]

I'll check roughly what maintenance we can expect from OrgRel in the F2 screen next turn. Doesn't speed up ships, though. Spire and Sphinx will produce galleys, as will at least one city in the western sea, to ferry longbows around. (Do galleys at least upgrade into galleons in the queue?)

Depending on cothon yields, their build times, opportunities to build them, and our overflow from Machinery, we might well be able to 1t Optics.

Apparently caravels upgrade to destroyers (?!) and submarines. Thanks for catching that.

Yeah, we'll probably load swords and trebs on the galleons, at least initially. I think Guilds is a 3t tech (at 100% sci) after cothons (we'll breach 500 bpt before modifiers), so we should have the chance to finish it (and HBR) by T150 at the latest.

I hope we can convince Krill and JR4 to attack dtay alongside us -- rather than targetting us -- and I think galleons will be instrumental in that.

[Bacchus]

Need to test OrgRel and shipbuilding in WB, it used to apply that modifier to ships.

Not sure whether galleys upgrade in the queue, I think you retain the ability to build galleys with Astronomy. Also need testing.

I was sure that Caravels upgrade to Frigates though.

[Coeurva]

Sicil builds wealth for this turn only, while all the other cities don't (finishing their own longbows). It's necessary to build some wealth to keep our breakeven at 50%. What units Sicil builds afterwards (a 6XP longbow will complete eoT135) will depend on Savant's reaction; might want 1-2 catapults, or possibly some crossbows -- I don't think Savant can build any non-melee units of note, last time I checked he didn't have Construction (bridge graphics).

Caravels do upgrade to frigates (which upgrade to destroyers); the chart I used was faulty.

I'll do those two tests tomorrow before playing.

Should I try to play after Savant next turn (Joey also took the latter half)?

[Bacchus]

Tested both -- no bonus to ships built through OrgRel, no ability to build galleys after Astro, so they must upgrade.

I assume Savant will get Machinery at some point, which is the greatest danger for us. Hopefully we are onto Sorpigal by then.

[Coeurva]

T135. We're at war. Savant happened to play this turn during the European night, so we end up second in turn order anyway.

Joey offered us stone for incense/banana, which I re-offered as stone+50g for sugar/banana (we can always put a plantation on the other sugar, but thanks to HR and not being in Slavery, we really don't need happiness right now -- the lowest surplus across all our cities is Rhapsody's, capped at 19).

Savant fired his own GA last turn (having played after us) and revolted to... Caste System, and nothing else. No knights from him all that soon, it seems. Nor will he have the ability to whip for the next ~5t. Because Joey's one million courthouses render any attempt to get his graphs futile (he put like 20 EP on us in a turn, we need our own courthouses), I've switched all our EP onto Savant. Might as well; he doesn't have any courthouses yet, I think. Our research is set to Monotheism; still at 0% sci.

Agree that Machinery is the biggest threat, but he's presently teching something at (I presume) 100% with only 164g in the bank and 591 GNP. Unless his deficit is really small during the GA, that means some backfill Ancient tech -- possibly on the road to Feudalism.

We've landed Hebona's contents at Sweet Water (a CR1 sword and Sentry chariot on the forested deer) and will take the city next turn (one C1 chariot inside, and Savant whipped a stele last turn). Saw no naval units anywhere close to our fleet with the Sentry chariot loaded on Hebona.

Hebona can also fetch the medic axe and the Shock chariot from Chehalis in time to reinforce Regna right after capture. My concern is less that we won't conquer Regna (garrison: one Shock axe, one chariot; Emerald Isle has a spear instead of the chariot; this probably shows that Joey is attacking somewhere else) but rather that Joey can take the city from us, or that Krill attacks as soon as the peace expires and stretches our front line very thin.

We're not going to make separate and simultaneous landings at Em-Isle and Regna, though -- we don't have enough units to take both at the same time. Nor do I want to split our triremes. (Two more are coming in through Chehalis to snuff out counterattacks.)

Haven't sent in the forces towards Sorpigal yet because two of our swords are lagging behind; we'll do that next turn instead (don't want Savant to hit our mini-stack).

I've set our north-western cities (Styx/Hall) to wealth, except Sicil, which gets 40 hpt and enough overflow to 1t three longbows from here.

EDIT: Forgot to mention a few things: Our shock chariot is next to Cuckhokia (size6), whose garrison is quite injured (can't see any of dtay's units yet). Yuri has Horseback Riding, and that might be how he recaptured cities from dtay, but those days might be over now. By landing at Sweet Water, we've also captured a worker (Arafinwe) whom we can ferry back to Chehalis at the cost of one cargo space for the reinforcements into Regna. Finally, I've offered OB to Gavagai, and dtay is starting to put 4 EP/t into us which we might want to counteract before he obtains graphs. I'd rather leave him in the dark about our power rating.

[Bacchus]

Looool on that timing of Caste System. GPP is not your problem, mate.

Yeah, we need longbows to defend islands. Annoyingly they are all flat, IIRC, which just makes Savants midgame that more dodgy. Regna is such an attractive target that it should get at least three eventually. The problem is that we need at least five, better six at Zodiac.

Our biggest shield is balance of power. Now that we are dtays next target and containment, I don't think Joey or Krill will target us for as long as they have other reasonable avenues of expansion. Regna is too tasty of a prize for an opportunistic attack though, geopolitics be damned. What we need around it is caravel sentry net, but that also can only come later. For now if Hebona could ferry just 1 lbow that would be good.

[Bacchus]

Also, now that Hebona is fully operational, I just want to quickly come back to that Woody III decision. Double sea movement is really good.

[Coeurva]

I think we can push Maudlin's galley back on the queue (30h invested), build a lbow there instead (with a brand-new and spontaneously-installed workshop in 2t), and shove our lbows mostly eastward, via Maud and Chehalis. It's also possible to upgrade the Chehalis archer, but I'd rather not unless Joey pays the 50g (although ferrying him over with Hebona should in fact be the correct idea, since we can reinforce Chehalis much more easily than Regna, and before the peace with Krill expires).

All the islands are indeed flat, although Emerald Isle is locked behind a river (and sea), which is actually more defensible than a hill (need a CG2 longbow rather than G2, of course).

Agree that Krill and Joey probably don't want to weaken us too much, but precisely because dtay will lock us down soon -- not to mention that Savant is by no means likely to offer peace (unless JR4 and Gavagai attack him as well -- which I hope his Mausoleum GA, loss of cities and Caste System will invite, although Gavagai capturing the damn Mausoleum and very likely going double-GA wouldn't help us much, either) -- we're a target for opportunistic strikes from those two before we get 2-movers online (which means knights here). Galleons and lbows mitigate this, but only in some numbers.

Woody III on the axe was necessary iirc because Savant had a chariot and axe beside a galley to hit our settler with, potentially; imagine if we had lost him (and thus Stygian Terrace). That said, I've said upthread that I think attaching Chandragupta to the galley was the best idea I've had in this game (if it even was my idea; I forgot) and yeah, every turn reinforces that feeling.

We'll possibly park two triremes near Regna as sentries. Doesn't help much (Krill has enough triremes to sink those), but might at least spot any counter-attack from Savant.

EDIT: Savant might also be going double GA, which wouldn't be good news at all, although I think he doesn't have a National Epic (but if he does, we're in trouble). The longer he has to stay in Caste, the better for us.