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As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer |
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Politics Discussion Thread (Heated Arguing Warning)
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 (March 6th, 2018, 04:48)darrelljs Wrote: What is AfD, LOL, and League/5SM? Last week's "Last Week Tonight"  was about the Italian election, in case you are interested in more details about the Italian parties:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdhQzXHYLZ4
League leader has rejected supporting 5SM. I think this is a mistake because being PM loses a lot due to "we want someone else" votes during the next election and would only be worth it for a majority government. He's shooting for a right-wing minority government as him as PM and there's a good chance he'll get it (40% @ PredictIt). I would have supported 5SM and hope they crash and burn. I would also be able to cause elections at the best time for me by withdrawing support.
League leader might be salty that 5SM refuses to share cabinet positions. So at this time it wouldn't be a 5SM/League coalition but League supporting 5SM. This could change, opening up coalition, but very unlikely.
Renzi said that he won't step down until after coalition talks are over.
The main problem is 5SM refusing to share cabinet positions. It's very humiliating to not get cabinet positions as a mainstream party so that leaves League+5SM as the only option. League has rejected it too. So there is no possible coalition and it will be a minority government. President won't pick the left to lead as they just lost and won't pick 5SM as they caused the problem by refusing to share. This leaves a right minority government and I'm guessing that the League leader will be able to use the fact that his party won the more seats and the threat of supporting the 5SM to bully his way to becoming the PM.
Renzi quit, but it'll only happen at the next party congress which will be after the new government is formed. Apparently he's making sure that no alliance with MS5 happens (PD + MS5 is 326/630 representatives and 165/315 senators so it's a viable majority). I don't see how Salvini can become PM, 2/3 of the parliament would vote against him if that happened.
The only minority government that has a chance is M5S, which is less unpalatable.
Calling Lega "far right" is pretty misguiding, it's a regionalist, federalist, Eurosceptic party. It has always had a strong left component (Salvini was a communist for chrissakes), but really spanned the political spectrum under the banner of anti-centralism and self-government. It is definitely a "challenger party" in the mode of MLP’s National Front, and Wilders"s Freedom Party, but is pretty unlike to either of those two as they are to each other. Nativism and Euroskepticism shared among them, of course, which makes them all appear alike to a certain type of cosmopolitan centre-left urbanite. But really not "far right" in Lega's case.
How are they not far right ? Their us vs them rhetoric is pretty clear (us being northern Italy them being everyone else), they focus unhealthily on law and order and Salvini hinted strongly that he wanted to purge people (who he wanted to purge is left to everyone's interpretation). Of course the far right european movements are not all the same but they're still far right.
If you want see what Lega's political composition actually looks like, all you need to do is go here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padanian_Parliament Lega is simply not anything like your usual political party, and trying to describe it as one is misguiding.
If you are going to hang "far-rightedness" on us vs them : class struggle is also pretty us vs them, is it not? Anti-imperialism is pretty us vs them, and that has been a very strong thread in Lega's thinking, Rome being the imperial centre they fight against. Thats why Lega has, and has always had, genuine socialists and communists among its members. Law and order has never been Lega's thing, they have been pro drug legalisation for a long time, for example. Now Salvini has definitely been taking Lega in a populist right direction. But he is one guy and Lega is one of Italy's oldest continuously functioning parties with a very strong ground game and established presence in local government. Santini and one campaign do not make such a party's ideology. Their primary strategic goal, one enshrined at all levels in party documents is federalism. If you were to describe the party fairly, thats what they are - federalists. What will happen now that Salvini's tactical methods yielded victory? Well, we'll see, Lega could walk away from its history, but its early days yet.
Also, you can always just search for what Roberto Maroni, one of the most senior Lega leaders, former Italian minister and current governor of Lombardy has actually done in government and how "far right" that is. He served twice as minister of interior, and for five years as minister of welfare. Or just look at what Maroni has to say about Salvini for that matter. Maroni retired now, but he represents a tradition that is very strongly entrenched in Lega. Might Salvini uproot it? Sure, but it will take some doing.
"Right Wing" in Europe tends to be used almost exclusively for a party's social policies (at least to my ears/eyes). Compared to Anglo-American politics, almost every party in Europe appears to me to be on the left economically. Those that aren't tend to be described as "free market" or "classically liberal", like the Free Democrats in Germany.
edit: I did actually go and have a look at Roberto Maroni. Also learned (unsurprisingly, in retrospect) that the League have been in government quite a lot over the last 20-30 years (similarly to the FPO). It seems the main difference this time is that they've gone all in on an anti-immigrant stance over their usual regionalist one. This isn't nearly the same as the AfD winning seats for the first time. |
