RB PBEM 2 - de Krill of Fronce

[Krill]

So, t50 update...graphs should show you just how far ahead Darrell is. Note that this are from before the turn is ended.

PS. Would love spoiler tags on this forum...

[Krill]

I had to look at that about five times before I figured out what three-food island you were talking about. Neither screenshot shows all three seafood. I'm guessing you got the second map from somebody else.

Yes, all map script, not me. Anyway, I see a pretty natural puzzle fit there (not spoiler, just looking at your shots, I don't even know what that part of the map looks like.) SSW (21) from the clam to claim both that and the west fish, 1S of the other fish to claim it and one of the floodplains, and 2N of the copper to claim that whole area.

Dirty dirty T-hawk

that dot map has meant that I don;t have iron in any city. I have it, but can't work it. Bluebell Bay is a wimpy city

[T-hawk]

Eh, it's only desert iron, 4 hammers. Only equal to a regular plains mine which isn't so hot. You of all people should be comfortable with knowing that the whip gives a better hammer yield than working that tile. I think Bluebell Bay is stronger for having the flood plain than it would be 1E to work the iron.

[Krill]

You can only whip so often though. Plus I don't tend to whip all that much in the late game. And the larger a city is...the less efficient a whip. Over size 10, the plains hill is a decent tile. I'll have a happy cap of 10 easily enough.

I would have settled 1S of the current position. Would have exchanged desert and 2 coast for iron and desert hill - and 1 plains overlap with Vp. Collosus powered coast is nice, but when you already have 7 of the tiles you don't really need that much more in a single city - especially when the overlap.

If I were going to cram the cities into that peninsula, as I intended previously, then splitting the food and the lower city sizes, makes whipping out units so much easier, but with a single uber city, really need to get it doing the job of all 3 cities, so it needs a ton of production. I'm not thinking so much early game, as late game for destroyers and battleships which are expensive as hell. They aren't whippable in most cities...

FWIW, I'm starting to think that I have made a mistake with planting 3B where I did, and should have stuck with the black dotmap. That had the cities in the most whippable positions. I could have combined the 2 city island and black dot map, but it would have required some rather...twisted MM to make the City 7 site viable. Actually...I can still plant city 7, it is just city 8 that I've lost...hmm.

[Krill]

As I think everyone can tell, 21 land tiles and 3 food res, and my brain starts to melt. i'm not all that used to playing on archi maps...

[Krill]

So let me get this straight - Darrell got invaded by Yaz, and then wiped out the invading galleys. He has to deal with 3 axes and 1 immortal, and probably won't lose his capital, but might unless I gift him my copper when I get it hooked. Yaz then invades Ruff and wipe out Ruffs copper city, and also declares on SL so Darrell can't trade for horses.

And here I am, with the settler for city 5 out, revolting to OR after slaving my forge (maximum overflow...) and grabbing Collosus asap. I can also research HBR in 7 turns as I have plenty of gold saved...Vp is starting to get slaved down for the granary and whipping out the basic infrastructure for the size 8-10 whip cycle I have planned. City 3 is growing as well, and city 4 has gems, and fish in 2 turns hooked.

Surprising how fast you can catch up to those runaway leaders when you get a bit of luck, isn't it?

[Krill]

Oh goody. Another island to colonize...also need to consider if I gift copper to Darrell. It will drastically slow down Collosus (I was planning on revolting to OR and getting 90 hammers into it t59, then basically finishing it with another overflow), but might be worth alot of good will. basically need to figure out what I would do with the 30 base overflow I have stored, and I can't think of much past galley->settler and get those islands colonized...

Also considering working an engineer for the 30%ish odds on the GE. Could come in useful.

[Krill]

Chat with Darrell, basically I was angling for the islands that might exists to my NE. Looks like I have a decent chance of getting them.

(8:50:38 PM) de krill of Fronce: Yo dude, you there?
(8:51:05 PM) Darrell: Yeah
(8:51:06 PM) de krill of Fronce: obviously not
(8:51:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: oh yay
(8:51:18 PM) de krill of Fronce: your internet seems flakey though
(8:51:33 PM) de krill of Fronce: just wanted to talk about copper
(8:51:41 PM) Darrell: Ok
(8:51:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: also, thank you for Mono
(8:52:15 PM) Darrell: Sure...any tech I have you can request
(8:52:22 PM) de krill of Fronce: After thinking about it, I want to gift copper to you this turn, but I need to point out a couple of other things:
(8:52:30 PM) Darrell: Think I owe thme to youy
(8:53:00 PM) Darrell: On my phone apologies for the typos
(8:53:00 PM) Darrell: On my phone apologies for the typos
(8:53:20 PM) de krill of Fronce: np
(8:53:47 PM) de krill of Fronce: Basically, I think you stand a very good chance of taking over Yaz's half of his island...
(8:54:13 PM) Darrell: If I kill his troops can I reject the off
(8:54:24 PM) de krill of Fronce: He made a peace offer?
(8:54:31 PM) Darrell: er or does it mae me choose up front?
(8:54:42 PM) de krill of Fronce: you have to choose peace upfront
(8:54:43 PM) Darrell: No ur coppere
(8:54:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: when you start the turn
(8:54:52 PM) Darrell: Bummer
(8:55:17 PM) Darrell: I agree I think I can ake 4 cities o n yaz lands
(8:56:37 PM) de krill of Fronce: Well, I looked at my capital last turn, and I figure I can run an engineer
(8:56:43 PM) de krill of Fronce: and I have 2 choices:
(8:56:49 PM) de krill of Fronce: either get hte GP, or GE
(8:56:53 PM) de krill of Fronce: well, not choices, obviously
(8:57:28 PM) Darrell: Thinking maces?
(8:57:43 PM) de krill of Fronce: well, that's the thing
(8:57:57 PM) Darrell: No
(8:58:12 PM) Darrell: No use for them until astro
(8:58:16 PM) Darrell: Excdept me
(8:58:19 PM) de krill of Fronce: not even off galleys?
(8:58:26 PM) de krill of Fronce: crosspost
(8:58:29 PM) de krill of Fronce: basicallly yeah
(8:58:35 PM) Darrell: Been thinking aboyht this a lot myself
(8:58:46 PM) Darrell: Preferf to work with you
(8:58:48 PM) Darrell: E
(8:58:48 PM) de krill of Fronce: I figure I could either bulb machinery, or gift you the GP for the shrine
(8:58:58 PM) de krill of Fronce: both suits you, really
(8:59:05 PM) Darrell: Other offer for lan exchange along those lines
(8:59:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: That was what I wanted to talk about
(8:59:26 PM) de krill of Fronce: that one tile island
(8:59:31 PM) de krill of Fronce: there seems to be land up there
(8:59:33 PM) Darrell: Figured
(8:59:36 PM) de krill of Fronce: and island chain perhaps
(8:59:48 PM) Darrell: Gonna turn on computer
(9:00:12 PM) Darrell: Legt me send pic
(9:00:20 PM) Darrell: Got to log on
(9:00:22 PM) de krill of Fronce: and you know that one tile of land you can see to my NE, I don;t think I can reach it, but it is way too close to my cities for me to feel comfortable for someone else to have it
(9:00:59 PM) Darrell: Fyi talkedx dreylin out of cs
(9:00:59 PM) Darrell: Fyi talkedx dreylin out of cs
(9:01:10 PM) Darrell: To trade instwad
(9:01:30 PM) Darrell: Keep between us but obvious c@ataphraqct beeline
(9:01:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: so basically I wanted to talk about some sort of partitioning of yaz, where you get the main island, and that one tile island, and I get what ever islands are up there, plus that next great person gets used to that end
(9:01:40 PM) Darrell: thank god much better
(9:01:42 PM) Darrell: now on my PC
(9:01:46 PM) Darrell: let me get a shot in game
(9:01:50 PM) Darrell: I think you might liek what you see
(9:02:02 PM) de krill of Fronce: also, cool about Dreylin
(9:02:05 PM) Darrell: yeah
(9:02:13 PM) Darrell: had to promis to trade him CS to do so
(9:02:17 PM) Darrell: not sure I will :P
(9:02:23 PM) Darrell: makes an enemy for a game tho
(9:02:28 PM) Darrell: I gue ss I probably have to
(9:02:35 PM) de krill of Fronce: meh
(9:02:38 PM) Darrell: but its ambiguous what he has to give me in return
(9:02:41 PM) Darrell: could ask for seomthing crazy
(9:02:57 PM) de krill of Fronce: equal beaker value, not much comes to mind
(9:03:05 PM) de krill of Fronce: especially if you shoot down philo
(9:03:38 PM) Darrell: have you played the save yet?
(9:03:56 PM) de krill of Fronce: right at the end, but not about to hit enter
(9:04:58 PM) de krill of Fronce: btw
(9:05:07 PM) de krill of Fronce: who do you have EP on?
(9:05:35 PM) Darrell: http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8222/...ot0157.jpg
(9:05:46 PM) Darrell: only one resource visible (gold) but it looks to be a big chunk of land
(9:05:51 PM) Darrell: 3 cities easy, depending on seafood
(9:06:00 PM) Darrell: its yours if I get some of dreylins land
(9:06:21 PM) Darrell: and speaking of dreylin, I can take astro and build you galleys while you keep colossus and henge
(9:07:19 PM) Darrell: galleons
(9:07:21 PM) Darrell: obviosuly
(9:09:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: on Dreylins land - in principle I agree.
(9:09:30 PM) Darrell: not aksing for a lot, just an exchange really
(9:09:49 PM) Darrell: you get a 3-4 city island between me and yaz now, I got a 3-4 city island between you and dreyling later type deal
(9:09:54 PM) Darrell: land to be equal
(9:09:59 PM) de krill of Fronce: yeah, that works
(9:10:00 PM) Darrell: or equalized somehow
(9:10:11 PM) Darrell: I think the galleon deal is also a really good one for you
(9:10:32 PM) Darrell: you can focus on a draft rifles tech path, I can get galleons and maybe even frigates
(9:10:59 PM) Darrell: that's all play it be ear, I guess, but general plan seems sound if you want to keep colossus and henge
(9:11:17 PM) de krill of Fronce: yeah, have to play that one by ear
(9:11:34 PM) de krill of Fronce: for instance I get some rather nice muskets
(9:11:42 PM) Darrell: oh yeah your france
(9:11:56 PM) Darrell: I bet you can get to nationalism/gunpowerd about the same time I can get to astronomy
(9:12:15 PM) Darrell: you save your pop for drafting, I provide siege and navy
(9:12:17 PM) Darrell: something along those lines
(9:12:42 PM) Darrell: not sure about musketeers vs. cataphracts tho
(9:12:47 PM) Darrell: rfiles have that nice bonus against horse
(9:13:27 PM) de krill of Fronce: it all depends on when and how he gets hit
(9:13:33 PM) Darrell: well anyway obviously I thought about this a bit, started to really as soon as I saw your land was a dead end
(9:13:49 PM) Darrell: you take the lead on that decision, since most of the blood and gain will be yours
(9:14:01 PM) Darrell: I'll take the lead on yaz, obviously
(9:14:09 PM) de krill of Fronce: well can't really decide until caravels are out
(9:14:15 PM) de krill of Fronce: but sure
(9:14:24 PM) Darrell: machinery bulb and we are a tech away from optics
(9:14:37 PM) Darrell: since I'm doing compass after maths
(9:14:43 PM) Darrell: (small chance for construction I guess)
(9:15:20 PM) de krill of Fronce: probably about 6 turns away from HBR, then need to save a bit of gold and consider the route
(9:15:58 PM) Darrell: Im sorry ass 9 from maths
(9:16:00 PM) Darrell: stupid yaz
(9:16:08 PM) Darrell: been saving cash since pottery
(9:16:29 PM) Darrell: pretty sick of whipping cities with no hammers invested
(9:16:56 PM) de krill of Fronce: ugh, not fun
(9:16:59 PM) Darrell: nope
(9:17:12 PM) Darrell: without this war I'd be at 7 cities, 5 with granaries and 3 with forgest
(9:17:22 PM) Darrell: pop would be about the same, but it woudl ahve been much more efficiently used
(9:17:48 PM) de krill of Fronce: well, you have the galleys to go drop the survivors off, or at least threaten to
(9:17:54 PM) Darrell: Oh I am going
(9:18:03 PM) Darrell: probably take 2 axes, spear and chariot and pillage his copper/horse
(9:18:09 PM) Darrell: his capital gets great production/food from the land
(9:18:12 PM) Darrell: I cna pillage a clams but that's it
(9:18:17 PM) Darrell: he's making an axe every 3 turns
(9:18:24 PM) Darrell: ruff might not make it, hard to say really
(9:19:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: axe every 3 turns, is what, 8 production?
(9:19:53 PM) de krill of Fronce: seriously, that it?
(9:20:22 PM) Darrell: maybe every other turn
(9:20:27 PM) Darrell: ruff said he had 13 natural hammers
(9:20:35 PM) de krill of Fronce: ah, that is more like it
(9:20:39 PM) Darrell: yeah
(9:20:42 PM) Darrell: ruff might not make it
(9:20:52 PM) de krill of Fronce: Would be interesting
(9:20:54 PM) Darrell: but I need to remove his start resources to give me time to build up enough units to kill him
(9:21:05 PM) Darrell: SL is giving him horse now
(9:21:20 PM) Darrell: immortals fare well against protective archers
(9:21:34 PM) Darrell: ruff lost his copper city to one last turn
(9:21:45 PM) de krill of Fronce: yeah
(9:21:46 PM) Darrell: yaz coudl circle aroudn and take out his other city, but the capital is going to be a tough nut
(9:21:56 PM) de krill of Fronce: need defensive boni do those archers
(9:22:08 PM) Darrell: he asked me if barracks + archer or archer+archer is better
(9:22:16 PM) Darrell: as AGG, a barracks costs the same as one archer
(9:22:22 PM) de krill of Fronce: depends on the number of imortals
(9:22:25 PM) Darrell: right
(9:22:36 PM) Darrell: I think its really barracks +3*Archer vs. 4*Archer
(9:22:41 PM) Darrell: which is a much easier call to make
(9:22:56 PM) Darrell: oh...one small thing
(9:23:06 PM) Darrell: don't post about giving me copper until AFTER yaz plays the save
(9:23:13 PM) de krill of Fronce: definitely not
(9:23:34 PM) Darrell: He's made some pretty amazing guess so far. I have no proof of coures, but better to be safe.

[Krill]

Been meaning ot update this, but always gotten the save early in the morning when I've had to run to work, or around midnight right before I go to bed.

Well, to kick off the update, I know feel that I am the #1 economic power in the game, perhaps only slightly ahead of Darrell in GNP, but because I'm slaving so hard into useful stuff instead of an army, via 3 forges, and I'm slightly ahead in the MFG/crop yield graphs, and I'm preparing cities 6, 7, and 8.

Darrell gifted me his exploring workboat, so I owe him one in return. we also exchanged exploring warriors. Got free religion spreads to BBB, and Vietnam (might have already posted about the first one).

Current CY/MFG/(bpt/gpt)@100%/0% numbers: 70/27/(49/-12)/(1/36), so can run 75% science at break even quite easily.

eot t62:


eot t64


Nice Island, future moia/HE city. AND IVORY!

[Krill]

Seriously not in a good mood with SL or Darrell at the moment. Unfortunately, not sure which one to be pissed atm. One of them has negoitiated a deal with Ruff to have a free shot at the GL, and I'm going to try my best to make that a wasted buy.

I'm currently trying to get a deal with Ruff, Aesthetics for MC. I'm already used the "I'll kill your WB" routine (sometimes you can't improve on the oldies), along with the point that I can research Aesthetics in 4, but he can't do that with MC...and I'm pretty sure Yaz with triremes would piss everyone off. Question is, do I piss off Darrell by gifting MC to Yaz (yes gift) if I'm not sure he is hte one with the deal. If he is, then that becomes a straightforward yes I will. I thought we were allies, and he hasn't even mentioned the GL to me. That might come back to haunt him...

me: Ruff, you there?
20:44 Luff_hi: y
me: get my email?
20:45 Luff_hi: yes - don't want to get too deep in beaker debt
but will trade Aesth + lit for what ever that tech was
me: MC.
One condition
20:46 Luff_hi: I will need a no build agreement on The Great Lib
me: that you gift Lit the turn it is discovered
hmmm
not worth it
Luff_hi: arr - not sure I can do that
me: shrug can tech Aesthetics in 4
20:47 Doubt you can do that with MC
Also, you do have circumnavigation to consider
20:48 I'm willing to trade for just Aesthetics
and not Lit
if that helps you
20:49 Luff_hi: let me think about it
me: cool
Luff_hi: going to movies with wife
me: I need to run and get a shower?
ok
any idea when you get back?
20:50 FWIW
also need to consider, do you want Darrell as your all powerful neighbour
Luff_hi: about 2-3 hrs
me: ok
will you have an answer when you get back?
20:51 Luff_hi: probably
bloody war with Yaz is ruining my whole game
me: You did start that.
20:52 Luff_hi: not this death match
me: action, reaction..
anyway
Luff_hi: I should have broken original NAP and killed his ass on T10
20:53 me: really need that shower, so sufficed to say I'll cut to the chase: I do want Aesthetics, and am willing to pay over the odds. You need MC, and for me to not trade it to Yaz, you also are #1 to get circumnavigation
so some give and take is useful
20:54 Luff_hi: you looking for MC trade for Aesth without Lit?
20:56 me: I'd be willing to do that. I know you are researching Lit next, it is an obvious research trade, and obviously you have trades lined up for it. I suppose I would want a little more on that deal, but not in the form of beakers, or gold, or anything material. Information of some kind would be useful kinda thing
20:58 I remember that was a chat where you were suggesting I give you something, can't remember what, and you would give me a one time control decision for your civ, like, not trading a tech to someone. Trying to remember what tha was about
anyway, afk for the shower