Maniac Marshall Wrote:OK, crazy shit diplomacy today. I was in 7 chats at the SAME TIME.
We also met Ruff this turn.
Cull, can you please dump the chats here so Ref can get caught up. The ammonunt of diplo and the game itself is keeping me from having time to do this.
Yeah, diplo has been crazy. I maxed out at 6 though.
What other civs haven't we met yet?
I'm only going to post the chats I deem important enough to post, but all the chats are on the FK account.
--------------------
RB: howdy
anyone on?
me: Maniac. One second i have 4 other chats going
RB: one imagines
5:55 PM Fools, we agreed that I should be the one to hash this crap out with you
(the others being the fools)
me: We wont abandon you, I promise you that.
5 minutes
6:01 PM me: I understand Kyan is talking to you right now?
RB: yeah sorry for not typing much here
figured I'd go from one of you to the other
me: no its ok, ive 5 chats that started 5 min apart so im in the same boat
RB: and hey! 5 other civs are online :D
6:02 PM well 4
guess someone is invisible
6:04 PM me: I dono why its doing that unless Cull is on or something
6:05 PM RB: shrug
Okay, so you're a definite member of this thing?
India won't be happy.
6:06 PM me: I know they wont. I THOUGHT India was going to be part of it
I supported them being in it and thought they were going to be
6:07 PM RB: Can we talk with total secrecy
now charing with anyone
no sharing*
6:08 PM me: yes
chat with me on my account if you wish
6:09 PM RB: No no this is fine, unless you have some sort of inter-team rebellion
going on
me: we would if we dumped you lol
RB:
Okay. first off, I'm not at all angry with you
this whole debacle has oppened up tons of opportunities for me
6:10 PM suddenly everyone wants to trade
fear & 'phracts will do that
however, India is not happy.
at all.
things are moving quick
very quick
I read your charter last night.
6:11 PM you may have put a target on yourself
a large one
a 7 team one
me: We've objected to that charter
RB: I don't care about your charter
that fact that I read it
last night
is the issue
I have a fantastic information network
I know who is organizing what, when
6:12 PM others are organizing
do you catch my drift?
I can't say too much without violating many NDA's
6:14 PM me: Yeah, it ammounts to if we don't switch sides we get dogpiled I immagine
RB: Kyan has told me that he prefers gray in a world of black & white
I do too, for most things
and I think you as well
that's just about it
right now people are asking what color you are
ugh what a terrible metaphor
6:15 PM anyway yeah, your above sentence is just about right
your charter doesn't have mutual protection, just inter-group NAPs
that helps make the world a little more gray
and you're a lot less safe
I don't want me best allies to fall apart
especially not killing each other
6:16 PM I think we may have been too effective breaking the alliances apart....
6:18 PM No way my civ is ever coming after yours, and I dunno about the others
but decisive action is the phrase of the day
I gotta go eat some burgers, I'll be back on in a bit
24 minutes
6:43 PM RB: Okay so
still on?
6:44 PM me: yes, I'm playing the turn
5 more barbs showed up last turn...
RB: good lord
axes?
me: all warriors fortunately
RB: ah
we're going to kill an axe in india's borders this turn
6:45 PM hopefully can then quickly heal and head to you
me: no, we have 5 axes now, but we're scrambling to get archers up for mp
we're going to talk to india in an hour
we ARE giving them MC over peoples objections
6:46 PM you as well, rome and portugal also
RB: Okay. I was going to ask if you wanted me to pass anything on to India, but I think you have that handled
6:47 PM I understand that my team has an invitation in to PAT?
me: I think we can work things out with India
Yes, Ive been telling everyone how much we liked you for days
RB: hehe, sad that you have to shill my civ so much
6:48 PM (seriously don't feel compelled to do anything)
I have a lot that I need to discuss with Moogle
and Mania
me: I've been trying to get hold of Kyan to support that line of reasoning, but this is the first time i've caught him online in some time
6:49 PM Krill wants you in, to my surprise
RB: he what.
6:50 PM me: He said something along the lines of "I have been trying to convince them I wanted to work with them since we met. If they would just stop being so damn paranoid.
6:51 PM Surprised me
RB: hehe
waaait then who didn't want us in
I've chatted up everyone in this damn game but Mali and Krill
6:52 PM me: I think they wanted Portugal and Rome more was all
I ORIGINALLY agreed to this when I thought there were going to be FIVE civs
6:53 PM and I made it known we wouldnt stop trading with you
RB: Five civs would have avoided an us vs. them scenario, too
ah well
me: If I'd have known it was going to be a 7 on 7 thing I wouldnt have agreed
6:54 PM I thought it was Egypt, US, Babs, England and Carthage
RB: sigh. The thing is, I don't want to be locked into another giant alliance. I wanted 3 or 4 close allies, and trades with whoever.
fluiditiy.
but I suppose this is inevitable, really
6:55 PM Like I said, lots to discuss with my teamates
I was sent here to chat with you to draw you back
but it would be convincing you to join as part of an 8 vs 6 or something
it that really any better?
5 minutes
7:00 PM me: I want that too
7:01 PM I'd like to do me, you, kyan and india
7:02 PM RB: yes!
that would be an ideal
7:03 PM but things are advancing too quickly for that to be practicable now, perhaps
That's what I meant about Kyan doing too good a job breaking the CAN apart; he ended up finding himself a part of this thing
and then I guess you guys joined to be with him
7:04 PM but India was left out, I suppose because it's clear that they and Krill are the most skilled players
and they can't therefore be on the same alliance
me: You 3 are really our only 3 friends
7:05 PM RB: yeah, you guys are my best allies too... this is one of the things I have to mull over
If I join either alliance, I'm forming part of a black & white situation, with friends on the wrong side no matter what
7:06 PM personally, I'd like to just keep freelancing, but I don't think that's practicable. My biggest goal right now is to get 'phracts, and I can't really get both groups to help me tech there
ah well. I suppose it's impractical to get India in with the group in addition to me?
that makes it overlarge.
7:07 PM plus turning on portugal, Rome, etc. puts a bad taste in my mouth
although I suppose one can't be friends with everyone
me: We thought India was going to be in the thing, and Kyan and I were always going to trade with you no matter what
7:09 PM Moogle is in the game, can you talk to him?
RB: he is?!
7:10 PM oh hey
he is
sure!
7:14 PM me: DAMNIT whats the speak command in game
i dont want to accidentally declare war on you like i did carthage
7:15 PM RB: I have no idea
maybe just send moogle a friend request?
on g-talk
then we could group chat
7:16 PM me: Cull here- I could potentially group chat but all I've been doing is lurking so far in the multiple chats
something like me on FK account and Maniac on his personal one??
RB: sure
7:17 PM me on my personal one tho
this one doesn't work with moogle tho
me: We have to use his personal one?
7:19 PM RB: what
no
mine
bobchillingworth@gmail.com
I can't talk with moogle using this account, for reasons inexplicable
(very confusing, I know)
7:23 PM me: ah
RB: how do you get groupchat to work ;___;
I can't get one going with you, maniac, moogle, and I
and kyan too
I guess
augh what a mess
me: personally (Cull) I have no idea
maniac?
--------------
Which led to this group chat that ended with both the FK email and Maniac's personal one have problems posting(?!?).
--------------
bobchillingworth: You've been invited to this chat room!
sleepingmoogle: hopefully
7:25 PM bobchillingworth: oh thank god
Kyan: oh hey there chaps
maniacmarshall@gmail.com has joined
Kyan: long time no see Moogle
bobchillingworth: whew
sleepingmoogle: hey there!
maniacmarshall: OK, it keeps closing on me in the other one
Kyan: yeah im dc'ing occasionaly
no idea why
7:26 PM always do on gmail and i cant blame whosit anymore
maniacmarshall: That usually happens when Cull is also on, so he's probably watching this
me: Cull here: its keeps closing with me the chat windows
yeah
bobchillingworth: I have no idea why I can only do this crap in Gmail
maniacmarshall: but im not going to try to keep up from FK so I'm glad I'm here
bobchillingworth: an not G-tak
Kyan: i wasnt expecting you chaps to be back quite so quickly!
7:27 PM bobchillingworth: Okay, so I think I told moogle the very bare-bones of what's going on
uh got any questions, teamate? :P
7:28 PM sleepingmoogle: yeah.. I think my current feelings can be more or less summed up as WTF
Kyan: lol, i could copy n paste from earlier
but it would be a lot of spam
7:29 PM basically, don't worry is first point. A lot has happened
brb 5mins. emergency
bobchillingworth: k
FK, no contact with India yet?
7:30 PM maniacmarshall: They are not on yet
but i told them 7 earlier
I didn't know I was going to feel ill and didnt expect to be here yet
7:31 PM Kyan: sorry i need to go
sleepingmoogle: on worries.. when I read that, I figured you may want to be resting though
Kyan: serious
Kyan has left
sleepingmoogle: ouch, that does sound serious
maniacmarshall: Well, I think it's just related to the long drive home last night
7:32 PM bobchillingworth: oh sheesh hope he's okay
maniacmarshall: hmm
7:33 PM cull, if you're clicking on the window with Pacal II can you stop for a minute. I cant keep it open long enough to read what he's asking me lol
7:34 PM bobchillingworth: ah great and now ottos message m
me*
sleepingmoogle: this is going to be one wild night hehe
7:37 PM Kyan has joined
Kyan: sorry about that
sometimes life calls
maniacmarshall: I had 6 windows going at once
sleepingmoogle: no worries
7:38 PM me: Cull: only 3 here :P
Kyan: ok, so where were we?
sleepingmoogle: trying to keep up with recent events
Kyan: did maniac explain the pat thing more or want me to explain?
7:39 PM long story short, Pat suddenly become a serious entity near enough over night
all 3 of us got invites
7:42 PM sleepingmoogle: gathered as much hehe.. it did come as a surprise in any case. two early alliances mostly gone, and two new ones take their place a few days later
maniacmarshall: Yeah, it's not really to my liking
Kyan: unfortunately, that couldnt really be avoided
3 smaller ones would be better
but the southern civs are all very close
splitting into 'krill' and 'india' camps it seems
7:43 PM maniacmarshall: I THOUGHT we had arranged 3 smaller ones, with flexible outsourcing, but it fell though it seems =/
Kyan: indeed
7:44 PM at first they presumed u wouldnt be interested
cos ben and krill dont exactly see eye to eye
bobchillingworth: It really is strange; I had heard that Ottos and HRE and Rome were forming a mini alliance too
I guess no longer though
Kyan: ?
i doubt that very much
bobchillingworth: since they have to join with 5 other team
or 4 others
7:45 PM Kyan: i'm actively trying to get Rome on board and they seem very receptive
bobchillingworth: to stop what you thought was a 5 member alliance
7:46 PM maniacmarshall: the whole thing makes my head hurt. I thought there were going to be 5 of us, and that we could still trade out to others if we wanted. I was fine with that
Kyan: aye its got real complicated real fast
maniacmarshall: Then the whole england charter thing came up =/
7:47 PM while I was at a con in chicago and Ref was not around either
bobchillingworth: Insane thought- any reason why this all has to be mutually exclusive; like, my team joins with your new... thing, and has within that a smaller alliace with babyon,maya, and india? To be distinct, could include such things as military cooperation
7:48 PM hell if you get india in on something like that, they could help steer the anti-PAT alliance, while we do the same for PAT
secretly control both sides!
the "palpatine manuever"
Kyan: haha
7:49 PM Krill will not be cool with india getting tech that we research as a unit
sleepingmoogle: I must say I was rather surprised to hear Krill wanted us in, given our rather cool relations
7:50 PM Kyan: you're friends of Maya and Babylon and great techers
you're currently behind in tech- but we can fix that in a jiffy
maths, construction, monotheism, monarchy, metal casting, currency and calendar soon etc
7:51 PM archery if you dont have that already
sleepingmoogle: we have math and mc now. Archery as well
7:52 PM Kyan: fair enough, but you get the drift
maniacmarshall: Krill will get over us giving India MC
btw, here's a single post from our thread that gives away nothing but how we felt about the england charter.
http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=461
please feel free to read that single post
ah crap, wrong window
lol too many chats. sorry Alan
Kyan: and with ragnar, hannibal, pericles, pacal etc in one unit
7:53 PM maniacmarshall: Posted that to the wrong window earlier X_X
Kyan: link isnt the best
it's been edited lol
maniacmarshall: yes, but its days old, and the one line still conveys what i want conveyed
Kyan: oh i see
hehe
7:54 PM me: Yeah, he crosspossed with me when we both pretty much were like WTF
sleepingmoogle: hmm, the link won't spoil anything then?
bobchillingworth: It's clean
me: EDIT: Crosspost. Updated ramblings below. I did see England's latest e-mail and find their proposal atrocious.
that's all
7:57 PM Cull here but up chat one of Byz mentioned that we could work an alliance in an alliance, a "papaltine move"
would that be good?
Kyan: currently- i am wary of india if im honest
7:58 PM tho i know you two civs both like them
im just distrustful of Rego
bobchillingworth: I was being only semi-serious... but if we could actually get india to agree....
maniacmarshall: I dont trust reggo either, but I trust Darrell
7:59 PM bobchillingworth: India will be the strongest member of Anti-PAT if I don't join
and if we three are in PAT
wouldn't it be fun to direct Inca to attack Mali >:D
Kyan: erm ha
bobchillingworth: run them all round like pawn
bwahaha
me: Lulz
Kyan: i know you dont like Mali
but i dont support any attack on them
me: Personally, I like them
8:00 PM bobchillingworth: shhhh
I'm having evil delusions!
sleepingmoogle: Ben's eyes have gone glowy red
bobchillingworth: don't spoil it
me: Don't feed the mad man....
:P
maniacmarshall: I like Mali, I dont feel a connection with them like I do you two though
Kyan: Mali is a strange one- if i hadnt met them first and WAAAAY before anyone else, things would probly be different
maniacmarshall: however, they have chased down a barb for us and generally been very helpful
8:01 PM Kyan: but i did and have
me: Ref has has LOTS of interaction with Mali from what I can tell, but (Cull here) my interaction is hi on chat, and some emails
that I don't even respond too
8:02 PM India's on BTW
Kyan: tell them to accept my invite
maniacmarshall: Yes, Ref has dealt with Krill and Swiss mainly. Krill by request becasue I really don't like talking to Krill for some reason, and he feels the same way about India, who I have no issues with
8:03 PM sleepingmoogle: Sounds like a solid strategy
8:04 PM me: Has india joined the group chat yet?
Kyan: i diodnt mean invite them here
im talking privately with them
me: ah
8:05 PM Kyan: they have a chariot that has perhaps unintentionally cocked up my worker plans
it was threatening 2 workers and a settler (altho guarded)
8:07 PM bobchillingworth: Is india still online?
me: yeah
bobchillingworth: would help to talk to them too, for sure
8:08 PM Kyan: yep
both rego and darrell
5 minutes
8:14 PM me: Just met Ruff
Kyan: nice
got all nw?
me: he has a wounded archer standing where I want to plant city 5.
8:15 PM I have everyone but JANK now
sleepingmoogle: Hmm.. I think a Quecha passed north of our capital. It should be somewhere north of your lands now
8:16 PM bobchillingworth: Hey is city 5 the one near us?
8:17 PM me: For us?
8:18 PM bobchillingworth: yeah
the one you chatted/emailed us about
me: most likely yes
have to check with MM, as he's out ATM
8:19 PM maniacmarshall: city 5 is not near you
me: never mind that
maniacmarshall: city 5 is 180 degrees from that one
-------------
A new chat with the same people
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8:26 PM Kyan: You've been invited to this chat room!
8:27 PM RB has joined
RB: uh
hi?
what just happened
me: FK and MM couldn't post
Kyan: i think the kittens all crashed
me: yeah
too high on string :P
8:28 PM now what were we talking about?
have to invite Sleeping Moogle BTW
8:29 PM RB: one of you will have to
me: don't have his email on FK
RB: my team email hates him for some reason
8:30 PM it's just
sleepingmoogle@gmail.com
send him a chat invite
dunno if he's still on tho
sleepingmoogle@gmail.com has joined
RB: opp yup he is
hehe
8:31 PM Kyan: i find darrell hard to talk to lol
i dont think he likes me much hehe
maniacmarshall: ok, looks like this one is working
me: Yup
8:32 PM RB: aw darrell is a nice guy!
he plays mass effect
8:33 PM sleepingmoogle: oh hey.. new group chat?
RB: yeah the other one had connection issues
maniacmarshall: the other one was borked
sleepingmoogle: aha
maniacmarshall: neither Culls email nor mine was sending to it
8:34 PM Kyan: ha guys
you're asking me to work with darrell, which is ok. i get it you guys like him
i find him a royal pain in the arse
8:35 PM maniacmarshall: lol
RB: I'm surprised that you deal only with him, Kyan; he had told me that his team divies up diplo duties
Kyan: i have him and rego
at same time
double team
RB: maybe ask to get put in Sooo's rotation or something
Kyan: playing good cop, bad cop lol
maniacmarshall: lol, yeah
8:36 PM Kyan: thing is
i dont do well with bad cop
rome threatened me at one point earlier in the game, so i deliberately moved my unit out of its intended path to wind him up. altho things are ok there now lol
RB:
8:37 PM me:
RB: yay I'm doing taxes while carrying on a bunch of civ chats
wonder which the real priority is!
8:38 PM sleepingmoogle: you can protest the maintenance costs in rpb3 ^^
me: lol
sleepingmoogle: it\s highway robbery
8:40 PM RB: Hey so when does the PAL or whatever want a confirmed yes or no
8:41 PM me: Idk, but i would expect soon
you could just stall and stay need to talk to teammates
8:42 PM RB: I think I want to discuss with India first... of course keeping confidentiality from my earlier chats with both your teams
8:43 PM If I suddenly decide to join PAT and India isn't informed until after the fact, or if it isn't adequately explained, it's a diplo nightmare. Same if I join the Anti-PAT and it isn't made clear to India that going after either of you guys is totally off the table
8:44 PM And if my team elects to simply continue to Freelance while keeping close ties with you all, I need to be sure that India can still help me to my UU
me: I think Freelance is the best way to go TBH
8:45 PM up to you of course
RB: Freelancing breaks the fewest hearts... and makes my team most likely to get out left to dry. Who would feed gold or tech to a civ when they have confirmed allies?
8:46 PM me: yeah...
8:48 PM Kyan: sorry i super quiet
speaking to india
8:49 PM me: speaking to Egypt
Ugh...
RB: India is on?
8:50 PM Kyan: aye, tho maybe they're only talking to me at mo. we only just met and things are slightly... tense
me: :D
lol
slightly tense
right....
Kyan: they think im screwing them over
8:51 PM RB: ah they just became visible
I sent a greeings... but not sure who I got
Kyan: just rego now
RB: doesn't seem to recognize me :|
oh
Kyan: he's a lot nicer
RB: I guess darrell doesn't share diplo info with his buddies, heh
8:52 PM me: just for info, how are your guys economy and pure beaker count per turn
ours is around 75 beakers ATM, but we are forced to tank our econ to try and develop more cities
8:53 PM like most beakers at 100% science
estimate would do
8:55 PM sleepingmoogle: not sure, heh.. then again, we had a round of whipping recently so we're not working all the cottages right now.
8:56 PM Kyan: unsure without logging in
beaker skew is thru the roof. but it costs a lot to maintain. wish i was financial
maniacmarshall: India still talking to you Kyan?
Kyan: silver next turn tho and gold in 3
yeah
8:57 PM maniacmarshall: well, I basically put you squarely on the spot and told them we werent changing sides unless you did... Sorry, curse me if you need to.
RB: I'm talking to india too
oh boy
8:58 PM got darrell this time
Kyan: oh?
RB: I hate it when multiple people possess one account
Kyan: he told me he'd left lol
tho i did basically tell him to talk to me properly or bugger off.
woops
9:02 PM me: gtg guys
see you tomorrow
Kyan: take care
9:03 PM RB: later!
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Chat with Carthage up next!
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Pacal: Hey, thanks for MC by the way
It's nice to be able to start teching something once again
7:19 PM me: You're welcome.
7:20 PM We've got 2 gold so, we're kinda sitting arouind for now
7:22 PM Pacal: yeah
at least until currency
what tech are you guys going for next?
7:25 PM me: I was about to ask you the same
Pacal: ok
from what I understand, one of us is doing CS and one machinery
7:26 PM the question is who does which (and obviously, what turn CoL comes in on plays a part of that)
t87
just looked back at a chat
me: From my understand Krill is most likely lightbulbing COL with a GP right?
Pacal: yes
7:27 PM me: I think the Mayan economy will be going to expand so we probably want to go after the cheaper tech
Pacal: so machinery
that's fine by us
me: K
7:28 PM Pacal: and obiouvsly, getting CS out helps everyone's economy
me: I will have to look in game but what is your max research even at losing money?
whoever has high should go CS IMO
7:29 PM Pacal: right now 81
within 3 turns near 100
me: I would have to check and currently not an a civ computer right now so later
but I think ours is about 85 ish and most likely hitting 100 soon as well, more libraries and cities adding on
7:30 PM Pacal: sounds similar to us
the other thing, of course, is that we could start either machinery or CS a turn or two sooner
as we have some gold saved up
7:31 PM me: we have 2 gold at the moment
a funder could feed us money
Pacal: sounds like you timed MC completing perfectly
yeah, we're really waiting for currency to come in too
7:32 PM me: yeah same
MC was actually delayed due to barbs by 1-2 turns though
nice timing I admit
Pacal: our expenses jumped by 9-10 with a new city
so even the gold we do have isn't going to be quite enough to currency
7:33 PM and we had to burn a bit of gold on an upgrade due to barbs also
that didn't help
me: yeah we just whipped our cities
upgrade we thought was too much
Pacal: yeah
we would have whipped, but we were in anarchy at the time >.<
me:
that is really bad
7:34 PM Pacal: so upgrade was really the only choice
I mean it at most means waiting 1 turn of gold
me: yeah
Pacal: which actually works out fine now, as we have a library completing in 1 turn anyway, which makes it more efficient to wait this turn (and coincides nicely with CoL)
7:35 PM me:
nice
MM- BTW Cull joined this conversation in the middle so there are two of us here, just to confuse you
7:36 PM MM- I am not sure what everyone is doing. You're doing Mach?
Cull- yeah on the Krill lightbulbing thing that was when I joined
7:38 PM Pacal: huh?
7:39 PM me: Cull and Maniac are both on the same gmail account
7:40 PM MM- I got distracted, and came back to find out he'd started talking to you while I was gone heh
Pacal: ah, confusing me there
me: MM- Hey, it's not like we accidentally declared war or... err, nevermind X_X
7:41 PM Cull-lol
MM we whipped away 10 pop in 5 turns...
7:42 PM Pacal: lol
I'm not sure I remember that war you speak of, must have been in an alternate universe or something
7:45 PM just to check
what techs did we agree on each researching?
7:46 PM me: not sure to be hones
We will have to check on what on how fast our research is
7:47 PM should be in this turn or the next, as I literally can't log in as my civ isn't there as a option!
Pacal: someone logged in on your team?
me: MM did
i think
7:48 PM Cull who wrote the above can't
Oh thats the problem
7:49 PM Pacal: lol
7:50 PM me: Seriously, both of us trying to log in at the same time...
lol
11 minutes
8:01 PM Pacal: any luck getting in?
8:04 PM me: Maniac is on and we have 74 beakers/turn on our current set up focusing on max sheilds
8:05 PM we can crank it up high but....
you guys most likely have a higher current beaker output
so we will go Machinery, you on CS then?
8:06 PM Pacal: that sounds fine
me: Should we tell the group in an email?
Pacal: or just tell them all in chat now?
8:07 PM except for Mali I guess
me: Sure
Pacal: I can do it, if you like
me: Thanks
If you could, that would be great
Pacal: np
8:08 PM me: thanks
Pacal: it has been done, except for Mali
8:09 PM btw, may I ask if you guys are #1 in GNP at the moment?
me: Looking forward for Liberilism, and seeing that you would most likely get it would you mind sharing the free tech?
Ah, I'm not on
MM- Culls been doing this because I have like 4 other chats in progress. I did want to point out our 4th city just founded last ruen has dyes, gems and spices, and we'll be whipping a library in 5 turns to expand boarders to pull them in, so that should ramp up quickly as far as beaker count
Have to ask, but I think you are defintly top 2-3
Cull: yeah
Pacal: #2
me: us?
Pacal: trying to figure out who #1 is
I'm #2
8:10 PM me: Babylon
Culture in Incan and Kril maybe?
Pretty sure
Pacal: well now 5 considering I just went 0% research
me: oh bab
then
Pacal: yeah, hopefully bab
as long as they are in our alliance
me: He's got an academy already
I think PAT has all the fiancial leaders
8:11 PM MM-We're fixing to "tank" our econ. Settler 5 is out just this turn, but we need this city as we don't have a real hammers city
8:12 PM Pacal: yeah, we just build a hammers city
hurt too
me: Course, the barbs are going to delay him
8:13 PM Pacal: naturally
when could the barbs ever spawn at the best possibly moment?
8:14 PM *possible
8:16 PM me: never
-------------
me: Hi Krill, Cull of Maya here just wanted to tell you we are going to make a run at Machinary in the near future, could you fund us/run 100% research in the near future?
Krill: soon as I get currency, yeah, can do
me: thanks
8:30 PM Currently I'm going around each PAT member and seeing what their max beakers are so what is your max beakers?
8:31 PM estimate would do, don't want to force you to log back in for a little request
Krill: maybe 50 bpt?
8:32 PM me: ATM, Bab, Carthage, Maya(us), and England are reseraching faster than you, so you would be okay funding one of us?
when currency comes up for course
of
8:33 PM Krill: I'm planning on funding you and Carthage
will have 500 gold saved at least by then
me: alright Carthage is running at CS BTW
Krill: cool, thanks for the heads up on that
me: np
8:34 PM once currency comes up there will be more general diplo chatter about it
Krill: as well as a public bitchfest
me: yeah
Krill: btw, got a missionary heading towards you as a gift
me: heh I'm making more beakers than you
oh thanks
would Cap be okay
yeah and the other person would be like well i've got praet :P
8:35 PM Krill: I'lll gift it to you, so you get 100% success rate to add to a city with no religion
me: public bitchfest it will be
and thanks
a gift right?
Krill: yeah
that is what the WC is doing
me: to fund your shrine and my research :P
Krill: it is one turn ahead of hte missionary
basically
It is in your interest to spread the religion!
8:36 PM me: which one BTW
yeah I know would help us and you
Krill: hindiuism most likely
me: cool
Krill: that is the missionary that is coming down to you, and others are spreading
so 1 shrine to get the majority
me: okay
plus OR once we've spread it enough will help us a bit
to tech
8:37 PM Krill: well, helps you to build stuff
8:38 PM libraries
me: libaries, monstaries
yeah
8:40 PM Can I get an estimate on when we can expect to be gifted the missionary, and watch out for barbs nearby they are pretty nasty near us with a LOT of spawns recently
Krill: the missionary is one turn behind where my WC is
ie, the missionary will be on that hill next turn
8:41 PM so however long it takes to get from that hill
me: Thanks!
Krill: np
8:42 PM and if you need any help with the barbs on the route, my WC is happy to stay around and kill them.
me: thanks
just warriors at this point but multiple warrior in the double digits is hard too
8:43 PM If you see any it would help a lot to kill them
--------------
Long chat with England
--------------
me: Hi England just wanted to drop by that Mayan next tech is going to be Machinary, and that we are going to need some funders
Haphazard1,: right
8:14 PM I think Krill has the COH to cover 2 civs
me: COH?
Haphazard1,: cash on hand
me: ah
I believe Carthage is going CS, and us going Machinary, and cash for both of us would be really helpful
8:15 PM Haphazard1,: right
you'll both get funded
no worries
that's the priority
me: alright
Haphazard1,: other techs will happen, but at their own speed
8:17 PM me: Moving forward, are you guys going to be a funder or techer?
Haphazard1,: not sure
depends on the gold
we can knock out full libraries basically instantly
8:18 PM our expenses are high
me: Yeah I believe Bab, Carthage, and Maya(us) are currently the top techers in PAT
Haphazard1,: but we can make a lot of beakers
well, enough beakers
We might do Lit
assuming we still get Aesthetics
8:19 PM me: alright
do you know the exact beaker amount max you guys can make?
Haphazard1,: not right now
am in anarchy
and laying down cottages
8:20 PM but, 60-65 per turn sounds about right
me: Carthage is 81, us at 74 and gaining quickly, and Bab even higher
Haphazard1,: right, we're 4th best
but we might be able to fund 4 people for a while
depends on Byz + Rome
8:21 PM me: yeah if Byz/Rome join we can fund 4 easily
8:22 PM Would asking all the civs in PAT for their max beakers/gold be a good idea?
Haphazard1,: yes, but let's wait until T90?
let the diplo settle down a bit
and be closer to currency
8:23 PM me: yeah sorry about that
Haphazard1,: no worries, the diplo has to take priority
me: Cull here and just recently been back fully submerged into game/diplo
sorry about it
Haphazard1,: yeah, there's been a TON
not just you
the past 3 days...WOW
8:24 PM me: Yeah same
mostly in chats for us
Haphazard1,: almost all chats
me: We had a day with 7 chats at once
Haphazard1,: only seven? j/k
me: and maniac is dealing with more
yeah I know
I said that and he was like "really only that much?"
30 minutes
8:55 PM me: Cull here again and that reminds me that you guys were mentioning building the GW right?
you get it yet?
Haphazard1,: yeah, we got it
this turn
me: ")
nice
I wish we had that....
Haphazard1,: sorry, couldn't get you the stone
and this screws HRE over
me: better you than Portugal all I'm saying
yeah'
Haphazard1,: all that French land...empty...
me: all of you :P
for
8:56 PM Haphazard1,: well, the land will get claimed by both us and them
I expect they'll REX a bit
build some Rathauses
me: Psh, their alliance is weaker, and worse comes to worse we can just feed you gold to expand
a worthy cause IMO
8:57 PM Haphazard1,: you mean "we don't feed everyone else gold"
if that's the case
tbh, if I grow too powerful
Krill might try to break PAT apart
me: Yeah
But by then I'm think they will only be 5-8 MAJOR civs in play
Haphazard1,: that's somewhat the case already
8:58 PM me: true
Haphazard1,: we've got 5 of the game's top 8
me: going to go check
Haphazard1,: Mali doesn't quite make the cut, but it's close
me: oh WOW
Nice first place ATM BTW
Haphazard1,: score?
+16 from wonder
+12 from you
8:59 PM and India's right there
me: oh yeah
....
Haphazard1,: and...20 pop points
me: psh, still nice to see a team from our alliance on top
and not Krill
Haphazard1,: Krill's power is latent and long-term
and that's the way he likes it
9:00 PM me: yeah
9:01 PM You think Byz will join PAT? I've gotten the silent treatment and can only hope Bab is working miracles
Haphazard1,: not good
me: yeah, my team thought that too TBH
9:02 PM alright GTG see you later then
Haphazard1,: it's fine...Babs' making progress
32 minutes
9:35 PM me: I dono what Byz is thinking
I think they have the same dilema we do honestly
Haphazard1,: which is?
9:36 PM me: before we met you, we had 3 people i felt were friends: India, Byz, Babs. Looks impossible we all 4 end on the same side
Haphazard1,: well, India...I don't know.
I don't trust them.
Rego...rego is manipulative
me: They're too tight with Portugal, so it wont happen
9:37 PM well, yeah... maybe we could just all get together and kill them and Krill and us meer mortal diplomats would stand a chance
9:38 PM Haphazard1,: I find Krill's manipulation far more straightforward and open
I also know his personality; one of my RL friends is a LOT like him
me: well, i agree on that
9:39 PM Haphazard1,: and with all those shrines...wow, he's going to be funding a lot of civs
me: not really a bad thing ATM
Haphazard1,: or, really, for a long time
9:40 PM looking at the map, I don't have a problem with PAT lasting to the endgame; our territory goals are ex-France and hopefully HRE eventually
me: MM-Cull and I are both here atm to confuse you
Haphazard1,: hehe
me: I swear this email has split personalitly...
Haphazard1,: many things do
9:41 PM me: like this game
Haphazard1,: just a little
I'm looking forward to the PBEM
no diplo...
9:43 PM me: PBEM 4/5
?
which one?
9:44 PM Haphazard1,: the AW one
I've been slotted in as a vet
which is weird. This is the only MP game I've ever played.
9:45 PM me: I've been slotted as a green(Cull) so that looks to be fun.
NTT FTW
Haphazard1,: I blame Krill; he asked me to join
me: lol
Should be fun comparing at the end for sure
9:46 PM Now back to this game
Haphazard1,: right
me: has Krill offered you free religion yet?
I think hes going around asking
Haphazard1,: I've got my own plans
Assuming I beat India, I'll be bulbing my own
9:47 PM me: !
nice
Haphazard1,: GSci: Philo
me: nice!
Haphazard1,: can't let Krill monopolize ALL of them
me: :D
lol
Haphazard1,: and stealing it from India makes me happy
me: yeah
Haphazard1,: as well as getting a Stock Exchange shrine long-term
me: !
plus wall street...
9:48 PM Haphazard1,: right. 3.15gpcity
me: and corps if we get to it...
Haphazard1,: we'll get to corps
me: Yeah
Haphazard1,: That means my 200GPP will be a Priest
leaves the 300 one for those purposes
me: Very nice
Haphazard1,: it'll take a while to get that priest...
9:49 PM me: Don't want to lose out to Krill/India, or even RUFF
Haphazard1,: England's trying to do a little bit of everything, but doing the cheap everything stuff: TGW with stone, bulbing our first GSci
9:50 PM me: who cares about cheap, IMO TGW was a mastemind stroke, stop barb agression for the rest of the game, plus allows for agressive settlements without worrying about barbs
Haphazard1,: it's been on our agenda for 30t...
me: builbing Taoism with a GS right from Krill is pretty amazing
yeah
true
9:51 PM Haphazard1,: it's my GS
he's got to get a ton of shrines, he doesn't have Great People to spare
me: true
9:52 PM Haphazard1,: Have you thought about what your first GP will be used for?
Probably a GSci for an academy?
me: yeah
acadmey in flood plain city
Haphazard1,: ooh, very nice
9:53 PM If we can get a GM quickly, and tech Paper, Machinery and Feud
we can bulb Guilds
me: !
nice
Haphazard1,: that won't be England
me: maya is alreadly doing machinery
Haphazard1,: right
me: and paper can be done straight after CS is done
Haphazard1,: ETA T120 or so
9:54 PM if someone goes Market + 2 merchants
me: an idea
Haphazard1,: definitely
also, with Philo + Paper
me: have to discuss but we probably won't do
Haphazard1,: we can consider a Lib run
me: I think Maya at the moment is a cottage economy, specaialist no
Haphazard1,: right; 2 specialists isn't that much
9:55 PM me: we could but those 2 tiles COULD be working 2 cottages right?
Haphazard1,: right
and FP cottages...very worthwhile
especially as Fin
me: yeah
MM- Saying this as much to Cull as you, but I really need to sun some battle sims before I decide how to play the rest of the turn. Then I'm going to bed. There is no micro plan for the next turn yet. I'll work on the next 10 turns tomorrow night.
Haphazard1,: hm. Do you want my combat calculator?
9:56 PM me: Cull: Got it, and can't stress it enough, turn research to 0 if it ain't already
well
Haphazard1,: it gives HP data
me: Cull: I have gtg sleep now, so I will see you all tomorrow then!
ok
9:57 PM c1 shock chariot vs barb warrior in a forest (flat)
9:58 PM Haphazard1,: 96.8 to win
16.5% 100hp
24% 85hp
21.7% 70hp
15.7% 55hp
for your chariot
10:00 PM me: hmm, lower than I hoped
10:01 PM Haphazard1,: shock takes 25% off the warrior
instead of +25% to the chariot
4.4 vs. 2.5
instead of 5.4 vs. 3
although it's a very small difference
10:03 PM 66.5 hp average
10:04 PM including 0 = dead
68.7hp average if you survive
10:05 PM me: meh, it'd have to be protecting a settler after the battle.
Not sure it actually helps tis complcated
Haphazard1,: 2xp
me: even more complicated by Ruff's archer
Haphazard1,: oh...
10:08 PM me: you #1 in soldiers?
Haphazard1,: yeah
TGW is 10k
but our lead is...big
#2 is 126k
me: ok, I'm #2... Stupid barbs.
10:10 PM I don't have any major boostage like the wall, so I'm probably swimming in military compared to others? Or do barracks count?
Haphazard1,: 3k are rax
rax are 3k
yeah, we have 3 rax
and 2k from a stables
me: 9k are rax here then
Haphazard1,: well, lots of 2-unit garrisons here
the mounted force
10:11 PM if the warrior attacks your chariot
82.2hp average
1xp
10:12 PM me: I have 3 Warriors, 3 Charriots, 4 Axes an a Spear. I've started 2 archers for MP. I'm debating revolting this turn.
Haphazard1,: that's not a large army
people are going paper defenses, I guess?
you've also got all the techs
10:13 PM that give power
10:14 PM MC's 4k
me: Well, the barbs disruped the micro plan, wasing a worker turn. we have2 turn archers at one city now, so things will go up very soon
Haphazard1,: that will help a lot
10:15 PM I need to run
me: well, in like 4 turns we'll have 2 turn axes there
okie
Haphazard1,: if you want me to send you the calculator, I can
might have to explain it...it's a little murky
me: excel?
10:16 PM Haphazard1,: yeah
me: my excel is borked.
Haphazard1,: the longest nested IF statements I've ever written
and I don't touch first strikes
10:17 PM I think it's doable, in cases where only 1 side has first strikes
but...haven't bothered to figure it out
me: well, send it, sure. i think i can run it on my gf's comp
10:18 PM Haphazard1,: excel 2003 or 2007?
can't do 2k3
10:19 PM lose some of my nestings
me: likely 2k7
Haphazard1,: ok
me: the desktop prolly has 2k3 =/
10:20 PM Haphazard1,: it might be up-compatible, though
the data that becomes borked
is some of the summary statistics
10:21 PM there are ways around it, but I don't want to have to go into them
could probably figure out a macro
9 minutes
10:31 PM me: hmm
warrior attacking a C1 chariot accross a river?
probably >99.9
10:32 PM Haphazard1,: just C1?
or CI Shock?
me: yes, but its BEING attacked across the river
Haphazard1,: C1 + river: 82.2hp average, 99.9%
me: not doing the attacking
10:33 PM Haphazard1,: warrior attack CI Chariot, across river
is same as attacking CI Shock Chariot
me: Well. I worked it out then
10:34 PM Haphazard1,: C1 Shock attacked across river
gets 89hp average
3 hits to kill
10:35 PM me: plus, there is an aztec archer there, so the settter would not be killed
i don't think it's worth wasting the promotion for then
10:36 PM Haphazard1,: lets you take CII if you need to
me: 1 in a thousand or less
Haphazard1,: yeah
me: or anything including cover since its escorting the settler to Kilrah
Haphazard1,: can't take cover
mounted
me: ah true
7 minutes
10:44 PM Haphazard1,: brb, making dinner
8 minutes
10:52 PM me: you know what turn Calendar is due?
10:53 PM Haphazard1,: 3t
although was that last turn?
I think T88
Yeah, T88
I'm finishing the chop on my silks T89
so it doesn't matter to me
me: I best start chopping the jungle off the dyes then =D
10:54 PM Haphazard1,: oh, definitely
10:55 PM me: the 2 workers finished the forests into the library. Cant work that tile yet though. We need to wrok that awful 4/0/1 tile so we can grow to size 2 and whip the library heh
Haphazard1,: "awful"...right
I do like my 2 food res/city for the first 4 cities
but other than that, I've got nuthin'
no FPs
some rivers
some hills
10:56 PM and future cities get just 1 food res per
me: Ive got 3 FP farms and will have a 4th soon. The rest of the FP's are designated for cottages
10:57 PM Haphazard1,: yeah, 10fp city will ramp up quickly
ours start fast
but level out
10:58 PM I think our land's well suited to being Sury
but I'd still prefer those 8-10fp sites you've got
11:03 PM me: oh,they arent all at the same city. 1 at PR, one at Temminck, and 2 shared with Temminck and the new city
Haphazard1,: the farm FP?
I saw a site south of Babs that would get 12FP
Globe Drafter, anyone?
Can have it work all 12, and still draft
11:04 PM me: well, we could possibly convert Temminck to that later, yeah =P
Haphazard1,: since a 3-food FP cottage breaks even with feeding itself & the extra cost of growing
size 8 to 9 costs 38 food. Halved for granary, so 19fpt
11:05 PM A size 8 city gets...hm. 34food
pre-Bio
me: could work 6 FP and an irrigated rice
Haphazard1,: that's 29 + 2 food
34 food is a net of 18fpt
and you need 19...so size 9 to 10
9 fp
me: +3
temminck is founded on sugar
11:06 PM Haphazard1,: ah
nice
me: only tile that made sense, and sugar isnt that much of a bonus
Haphazard1,: right
it's, what, 4/0/2?
me: so once we get calendar, we have an immediate happyness
yeah
11:07 PM Haphazard1,: +Fin
me: we lost a little in the long run to do it. I needed convincing
Haphazard1,: founding on sugar is 100% acceptable
11:08 PM me: well, when we sat down and looked at it, nowhere else made sense
Haphazard1,: compare 3/1/1 + FP cottage
to founding on 2/1/1 + 4/0/2 sugar
11:09 PM or, 4/0/3 sugar for you
me: wow, hmm, we dont have to revolt for a while if we're getting calendar in 2 turns
11:10 PM Haphazard1,: we had to this turn
didn't think through when CS was coming in
could've put off OR until then
we'll see if the 2gpt in costs now
11:11 PM pay for several extra turns of OR post-Philo
me: hmm, we could probably put it off for 10 or more turns
Haphazard1,: we've grown vertically
so, not really an option
me: however, we still might want to do it now
11:12 PM Haphazard1,: this turn = not a turn lost on Machinery
me: all 3 cities other than the noobie one finished builds, one of which was a settler
Haphazard1,: what's your gold situation?
on-hand, bpt, gpt costs?
me: 2 gold onhand lol
Haphazard1,: hey, that's 2 more gold than we had when we finished Monarchy
11:13 PM that's a sign of good MM
me: we actually could have had more, but i didnt want to dial down to 70%
Haphazard1,: it's equivalent
11:14 PM overflow gets turned into base beakers
if you were going CS, I'd say "revolt this turn"
so the overflow went into CS
11:17 PM me: CS?
Haphazard1,: Civil Service
me: oh
11:18 PM I think we're going to revolt this turn, though i'm waffling on if we'll need to for ages honestly
11:19 PM Haphazard1,: It doesn't cost extra gpt
so if you've got a settler out
and are worrying about happy cap space at all, just do it
let the flexibility help you out
11:20 PM me, I'm planning on growing my cities up
whipping the forge
me: We'd soon be able to be happy to size 13 with a ball court and without monarchy
Haphazard1,: ah, right, Ball Courts...
me: check that, size 14
Haphazard1,: forgot how crazy good those are
11:21 PM and remembers that I could've had them
but, we've been over that already
me: I'm getting a missionary from Krill shortly as welll
11:22 PM Haphazard1,: I'm 10t off from the prospective bulb
me: Yes, I agreed to the yes, I will help you build that godlike shrine thing =/
Haphazard1,: I'm going to try and get at least Babylon, if not Mali as well, into Taoism if we're successful
11:23 PM me: i think the conversation went like: Do you want a missionary?
Yes, even thought it will help you more than me.
Haphazard1,: it helps both
you need access to the religious civics
me: Well, you're getting monotheism and you can get extra hammers with OR
11:24 PM Haphazard1,: double-revolting to OR might be a decent choice
if the missionary's due soon
otherwise, wait for CS to come in
me: Arent I a nice guy to give that to you for free
Haphazard1,: when he's being facetious like that, tell him off.
Agree, sure, but make it clear "I know what this does for you"
I do it all the time, it works well
11:25 PM me: I said "Yeah, I'm sure we'll all remember that when you're cranking 100gpt out fo that shrine. Nevertheless, I want the missionary.
Haphazard1,: won't be 100gpt base
but might be with WS
11:27 PM me: hmm, the ottos are trying to contact me.... I guess they don't know the bad news...
11:28 PM Haphazard1,: that they're not getting MC? Should be fun.
me: I met ruff this turn if i didnt say that
Haphazard1,: so did I, actually
11:29 PM me: so yeah, Ruff, Ottos, and HRE are getting nothing
Haphazard1,: Ruff didn't mention Monarchy to me
me: they gave me nothing and CAN doesnt exist
Haphazard1,: If he ever gets to draft, he's going to be scary
5t draft anger
me: I think Ruff is diplomatically enlightened
Haphazard1,: half-time slaving's nice.
But half-time drafting's crazy good
it's not hard to plan around 10t whip anger
11:30 PM well, more or less
me: still here
11:31 PM avoiding the ottos. maybe they will figure it out =P
Haphazard1,: yeah, I did that to France
pre-war
11:32 PM me: ottos gave us nothing,and i never promissed them anything
Haphazard1,: I tried to set the precedent of you're making bilateral deals only
India still got MC?
me: I said MC would be available on this turn, but i never promissed THEY would get it heh
11:33 PM yes, india got MC. India got screwed enough by letting us do it in their place, and when I got the ok to do it in their place I prommised them they would get it
11:34 PM Haphazard1,: I think "India got screwed" more by their own decisions
me: think about it from their perspective
Haphazard1,: I am. They wanted to be a slow-techer
despite all the city capture gold.
As long as you get Aesthetics, it's a decent trade
me: if they dont agree to let us do MC, then they would have gotten currency, calendar, and construction for it
11:35 PM Haphazard1,: that's true
but MC would be 10t off
11:36 PM me: yes, but they got hosed by agreeing to let us do the tech. They lost 3 other techs for scores of turns
11:37 PM Haphazard1,: I guess
oh, Rego told me their group name is kbp
kpb
Kick PAT's Butt
don't think it's official
yet
me: he seems confident that they will
11:38 PM Haphazard1,: well, he doesn't know what we have planned...
Let's see, we'll beat them to Maces
they've got to pick up MC
and Currency
we're bulbing 2 religions on them
Theo only with us, for kicks
11:39 PM I think with careful planning we can make sure GLib is ours
they might have numbers
but full Construction + Maces on our side?
What can they do?
11:40 PM Inca, Aztec and Rome are all very underdeveloped
Byz has to worry about lots of neighbors
if Byz doesn't join up
I have no clue what Byz will do
me: Really hope Byz joins us.
Haphazard1,: same here
but, if we have to kill them
it will happen
11:41 PM me: They would like to stay neutral, but I think they realize its impossible and will have to pick sides. Logically, they would join us
11:42 PM Haphazard1,: Neutral just means everyone's willing to kill you
and how can they keep up in tech?
me: yeah, i think they know that
They pretty much admitted they would have to choose
11:43 PM Haphazard1,: if they were first to Feud
I could see them dealing it for parity
but other than that...
me: They are a little surprised we're willing to take them
Haphazard1,: you and Babs don't want to kill them right now
Krill needs one safe neighbor
and the rest of us don't really care
11:44 PM me: I dono what their research rate is but they have 5 workers and are Fin, it shouldnt be awful
Haphazard1,: five workers?
that's not that many.
me: its a little low yeah
Haphazard1,: we're Exp, so we should have more.
me: we have 7
Haphazard1,: But I've got 8
11:45 PM get a solid road network
...
-----------------
And those are the important one IMO!
In pure max beakers, from our current info, Babylon is first with an academy, and with ???(higher than Carthage, but unknown exact ATM) per turn, Carthage with 80-81 per turn, and us at 74 per turn, with England at 65ish.
We're making a run at Machinery once Currency gets up to PAT, and Krill by that time should have around 500 gold enough to fund us and Carthage's CS research.
