Gavagai comes back to his roots

[Gavagai]

Also, I wish you would post more. Looks like an interesting position you have there.

 I'll try to find time for an update In one sentence, I've got a dumpster land balanced by having no neighbors. Grabbed the Lighthouse which is very good. The plan is Great Library into Astro into ruling the waves with the Dutch.

[Krill]

Thank you for the updates. Just the occasional picture and single sentence does wonders.

[Gavagai]

Some random thoughts about the game.

1) I got really unlucky with my starting position. I have a small subcontinent with a sheep and a fish. These are literally only powerful food tiles I have outside my capital BFC which are easily available. I have only 12 cities, a third of them at ridiculous distance from my initial capital (I have moved my palace since then). I grabbed the Lighthouse and the Parthenon to compensate for shitty land, we will see whether that would be enough.

2) I got really lucky with Donovan playing a troll game and starting next to me. Instead of expanding, he built five wonders in his capital. He left unoccupied a couple of city spots inside his natural domain for long enough time to give me a possibility to settle cities there. Also, his weakness opens for me an opportunity for profitable conquest.

3) I will bulb Astro in 6 turns, build four ships and drop sixteen units right inside Donovan's core. Combined with a more conventional land-based offensive, it should be enough to take him out as he is really pathetic.

4) Commodore is a huge concern. He is somewhere near Donovan and twice as many cities as me. He currently seems to be disorganized with shitty GDP, still suffering from the consequences of the war with Superdeath. This is the reason why I feel that attacking Donovan is such an urgent matter. I need to finish him off before Commodore has a doomstack of Knights and is able to through me back into the sea.

5) Other people in game seem to be doing random stuff. Cairo is running Vassalage + Pacifism. Naufragar has built the Great Library and then suddenly attacked Rusten who is much more powerful. Rusten has whipped himself into the ground in a paniced overreaction. BGN settled a city something like 10 tiles from my new capital. He also refuses to give me OB to feed my lighthouse, which is not a wise policy towards the person who is going to have the most powerful naval unit in game soonish. If he wants to keep the city, he needs to give me some incentive to be friendly with me. He also lost a city to Donovan, of all people, last turn which makes me think he decided to settle everywhere and piss off everybody. MoM is not yet built (T132) which is pretty insane. I suspect Commodore is the only person who did not have a GA yet, so I suspect he will get it.

6) Commodore will most likely win the game, unless my war with Donovan goes really smoothly.

7) I am only writing this because I really need to work, really do not want to and am procrastinating. Hopefully, will have more free time in February. Also, may post some screenshots soonish.

8) The map is very good and I am having a lot of fun. First time in a long while I feel like map actually matters. We should be playing random maps more.

[Mardoc]

1) I got really unlucky with my starting position. I have a small subcontinent with a sheep and a fish. These are literally only powerful food tiles I have outside my capital BFC which are easily available. I have only 12 cities, a third of them at ridiculous distance from my initial capital (I have moved my palace since then). I grabbed the Lighthouse and the Parthenon to compensate for shitty land, we will see whether that would be enough.

...

8) The map is very good and I am having a lot of fun. First time in a long while I feel like map actually matters. We should be playing random maps more.

Gotta say, I wasn't expecting item 8 after I read item 1 .

Thanks for the update!

[Gavagai]

Screenshots!



My starting position (Venarium is the initial capital).



My South and the new capital.



My Far South. I only got this land because Donovan was doing what he was doing instead of playing normally.



My Far East. This is my Gondolin: no one so far has the slightest idea it even exists. Note that there is land further to the East.



BGN's city, just south of my new capital. Wanted to snipe it after I am done with Donovan but now Rusten would probably get it (he declared on BGN last turn).



This is what I believe to be borders of Donovan's capital, just south of my Far East. I am attacking in 8-9 turns from that direction with 4 ships and 16 units. Swords with Xbows and Longbows to cover. Also bringing along 2 Trebs as Plan B. Reinforcements will consist of Maces.



My initial capital.



NE city. In hammermode now but can run up to 7 specialists.



New capital. A pretty weak one but in a good spot.



Moai city. Maxing out hammers now, because warmode.



Demos. Somehow first in hammers and have competetive GNP despite being last in food (124 is Donovan but let's not count him).



Techtree. I have everything to the left of it, except Meditation and HBR.

Anything else you want to see?

[Gavagai]

1) I got really unlucky with my starting position. I have a small subcontinent with a sheep and a fish. These are literally only powerful food tiles I have outside my capital BFC which are easily available. I have only 12 cities, a third of them at ridiculous distance from my initial capital (I have moved my palace since then). I grabbed the Lighthouse and the Parthenon to compensate for shitty land, we will see whether that would be enough.

...

8) The map is very good and I am having a lot of fun. First time in a long while I feel like map actually matters. We should be playing random maps more.

Gotta say, I wasn't expecting item 8 after I read item 1 .

Thanks for the update!

I want the map to matter for gameplay. This is what I do not like in uber-balanced RB handmade maps - they do not matter because every starting position is fundamentally the same one and plays in the same way. Any variety in strategy happens because of what your opponents doing, not because of the map. With this start, I was forced to be creative with my opening and I liked that.

[Gavagai]

Tech plan is Astro - CS - HBR - Guilds. After that I may try to grab TJ by self-researching Nationalism. The only person participating in Liberalism race is Cairo but I think he will take Astronomy.
MoM is still unbuilt, crazy.

[Mardoc]

Anything else you want to see?

Any idea what Donovan's military looks like?  Is this going to be an easy war or merely profitable?

When do you kick it off, anyway?

What will he have to change in future games to stop being seen as a piñata?

I want the map to matter for gameplay. This is what I do not like in uber-balanced RB handmade maps - they do not matter because every starting position is fundamentally the same one and plays in the same way. Any variety in strategy happens because of what your opponents doing, not because of the map. With this start, I was forced to be creative with my opening and I liked that.

I understand...it's just that complaints in the other direction led to the 'uber-balanced RB handmade maps'.  So I'm used to seeing that kind of desire rather than yours.

I mean, it makes sense that you'd enjoy the journey more than the victory screen, given the ratio of time spent on each.  And the journey can be more interesting if you have hurdles like this, definitely.  And RB is to a point where we ought to be able to, at a minimum, run some games on both kinds of map.

Tech plan is Astro - CS - HBR - Guilds. After that I may try to grab TJ by self-researching Nationalism. The only person participating in Liberalism race is Cairo but I think he will take Astronomy.
MoM is still unbuilt, crazy.

Do you think this is more related to the RtR removal of the Marble bonus, or the map being less lush (leaving less room for extras), or just the particular players this time?  What's your reason for not building it?

[Gavagai]

1) Any idea what Donovan's military looks like? Is this going to be an easy war or merely profitable?

An excellent question about which I think a lot myself. I have very little info on Donovan. Opening borders to him would allow him to spot my preparations and cancelling open borders would tip him that something is up. I figured that I have a rough idea of where his capital is and I do not really need to know anything more.
He has a decent tech rate due to a combo of Colossus and fin, so all kinds of surprises are possible. He can hit Knights by the time of my attack, for example, his GDP allows it. But his main problem is pathetic production, so even if he would have advanced units, he would not have many of them. On top of that his production seems to be heavily concentrated in a couple of core cities which I will try to take on the very first turn.
Realistically, I am mostly afraid of Maces. RB-swords can kind of deal with Xbows and Longbows but Maces are too much for them. The only realistic way to counter them at that point is to have Maces of my own but I could not research CS before Astro due to bulbpaths. This is why I will have Maces only in the second wave.
Bottom line, the war will not necessarily be easy. A lot depends on how many units he keeps around his core. I reasonably hope that not many, given that he has a south-eastern front with me to defend and a war with BGN.

2) When do you kick it off, anyway?

T147 most likely. Maybe a turn earlier, depending on particulars of Donovan's sea borders. I will have a ship to do a little bit more scouting.

3) What will he have to change in future games to stop being seen as a piñata?

Nothing? There is nothing wrong with this game in my opinion. (Misread the question, see the response to SD below)

4) Do you think this is more related to the RtR removal of the Marble bonus, or the map being less lush (leaving less room for extras), or just the particular players this time? What's your reason for not building it?

Removal of Marble bonus was an overnerf. Making it obsolete at Nationalism was enough to move the wonder from "broken" to "strong". Removal of Marble bonus kicked it further down to the tier of "situational": it is now about as expensive as Taj which immediately gives 8 turns of free GA, while MoM can realistically give about 8 turns over time. And here we do not have the right situation. Watery maps increase the relative value of one-movers because static defenses become more important and boats can provide a lot of mobility. This, in turn, increases the value of Nationalism, I imagine no one wants to delay it.
I did not build it because it did not offer any immediate help for the war with Donovan. My production is scarce and I needed to cut a lot of stuff to be able to pull off that invasion that early (observe, how many "city" signs I have over unclaimed spots).

[superdeath]

3) What will he have to change in future games to stop being seen as a piñata?

Nothing? There is nothing wrong with this game in my opinion.

You see nothing wrong with Donovan's endless wonder spamming? Or did you misread the question.