[Spoiler] PB42: Rusten and mackoti play Krill playing Bismarck of Portugal

[Krill]

Turn 96

A biggie, but next turn should be bigger. This is only half the turn. There are no cities or worker micro stuff in this report. Probably not going to do that bit until next turn once the trade routes come in and I know what I need to do to hit IW eot98. I still need to finish the turn though.




Looks we need some capture gold to get Currency at 100%! Let's see if those damned barbs oblige...





A giant FU to the barbs. The chariot is now 8XP, and needs to go wandering for that last 2XP. We get 27 gold for our trouble, nice little earner to push us towards IW, as there are only 3 turns of revolt.





Gems roaded T98, chopped T100, Mined T102. If IW finishes eot98, and that is a question of how much wealth building we do and how the trade routes work out.


On that note...




Hello OT4E.





8 cities, I offered OB, doubt he will take it. He has met superjm, and OH but not DZ.Next turn should get a trade route to see his resources, I wonder if I could trade him furs for anything now I have the second resource hooked?





The island city is settled next turn. Corn hooked T99, two forests chopped T103 and T104, library whipped T105, borders pop eot110 and should aim to have fish hooked T111 and the third forest chopped for the granary T111 as well. I'm reconsidering keeping two workers here, because another option is to grow and whip a settler here for the other island city: this would hook the sheep T114 as opposed to T117, and more importantly, it means I can send the galley south, pick up 2 chariots and go exploring. If I intend to bring a worker back, that would mean the galley has to wait until T104 to get the worker back, that is 11 tiles of exploration the galley is delayed by.

I'd rather just leave the worker.





New city! Finally made it work. Turns out that it's just as quick to get the work boat out of JJ eot99 rather than chop it here (OK, pay a little more for having the workboat, but it saves a forest).

This is one of the few double food cities I see, and I think it is the only other city site that can hold HE and make it work. So that's the plan. Chop the granary. Grow. Prepare to be a unit pump. Will build a market sooner rather than later, better before Lit than after HE.


Further scouting:




Changed my mind, decided to scout with the chariot, the missing FoW is discoverable from the northern land area, so no need to send a galley to it, better to send them deep.

OH has dyes, we share sugar, we have incense and furs, and I've taken a pair of gems tiles. I've come off better in terms of land and resources IMO. I've been considering if it's even worth attacking OH: it's not like he has anything we want, and if we can trade for the dyes, I'd probably leave him alone and try to take out someone different, someone with land. I'm considering if it's worth pushing the western front city, to lock it down and then play the happy neighbour. Otherwise, probably want to make him overextend and then push through his eastern front city with cats, swords and HA, and we have a potential tech lead to try and make that work, but we have land to grow into. Peace seems wiser.





Any preference for directions? If we go north, we can search for Whales that might be worth trying to nab, otherwise probably just go straight west. Given we can't get a galley built here for a while, it may be worth sending the current galley west rather than south: City R site to the east is double food, double inner ring forest and could easily build a galley out at size 4, but none of the western cities can do that.





I'm betting Gav is the crop yield leader. Wasn't sure if OT4E was the dark horse, but his lack of cities and pop makes the obvious choice more obvious.

[Krill]

Current random thoughts: I have too much overflow in MtK for a quick double whip of a worker to get a second worker. Need to dump it. Either market or settler make sense. Settler is better but doesn't complete until T108 with MtK at size 2. So really I need the workers from somewhere else.

Ain't Misbehavin will double whip something, quite possibly this is a better place to get 2 workers from using the same technique but then I need to use these for city R. If I do this, I need a settler from somewhere. I have 3 workers at WoodchopperBall but need 2 of them present to double chop a granary on T101. I have 2 workers at BCR that I also need to move somewhere and I also need to prepare for ITM to reach size 10 with Calendar so I do need workers passing to finish those cottages.

If I don't get any workers down to the sugar, the soonest it could be chopped is T106 with Smashing Thirds having no food resource hooked.

The next 5 turns are going to need some finesse.

[Krill]

Roughing workings. Note, all turn numbers ignore any turns of wealth or research building: the reality is settlers and workers will come out later as I need wealth builds over the next 2 turns to get IW eot98.

LBJ: Settler 25/100, no OF
MtK: 11 hammers OF,
Kalamazoo: 14 hammers OF,
BCR: 2 hammers OF,
AM: 8 hammers OF,
3S: 11 hammers OF (next turn).

I need settlers for Sugar city, City R, Filler city, and want a settler for the western front city against OH. I have 9 workers, and 2 of them are being dropped onto an island, and next turn I have 12 cities. 8 mainland workers for 15 cities is not good. I'm going to need at least 2 workers for the front city, 2 workers for City R, another worker for the sugar city, 2 workers for LBJ and MtK as they grow onto new cottages and to hook the incense so that the happy comes in and 2 workers for AM and the capital. WoodchopperBall needs 2 forest chops and a corn farm, so needs 3 workers until about T104. That's 12. I can probably make do with 11, so I need at least 3 workers, and I need 2 more settlers from cities, a third if I can get it.

I need to whip Sing Sing Sing for a worker, it will be size 3 with one improved tile, eot98. Kalamazoo can get a 3 turn worker out whilst stagnating on the deer, eot99. MtK can get a 4 turn worker out if it works the hill, eot100. AM can get a 4 turn worker out at size 3, eot100. That means the only cities remaining to get settlers are BCR and LBR. I need Kalamazoo to pick up the pig from ITM on occasional turns, so I can't leave it on a settler, and MtK has no workers nearby to help get a new city up and running. AM has to go settler, not workers: that would be whipped T101.

ITM needs to grow, and is dropping onto a market. It has to balance growth and hammers and until T98, commerce for IW. It can grow to size 7 eot101 from the gems, but the market should finish after this. There are enough tiles to work over this period that the workers can wait.

So settlers out of LBJ eot99 (Sugar city T105), BCR eot102 (City R, settled T104, granary eot105, corn hooked T107, sheep hooked T109) and AM eot101 (Filler or front city). Workers out of 3S eot98, Kalamazoo eot98, MtK eot100, and JJ building the work boat for WB eot99. Remember, all dates expected to slip due to wealth and research builds.

[Krill]

T96 continued




Met Gavagai last turn as well. Big turn.





Despite a war against Elkad, he still doesn't have more cities than we do. What he probably does have, is bigger cities and more happy resources. Not much I can do about that.





Finally met someone that OH hasn't. Also, no trade routes. I reckon I was the first to Alphabet. OT4E rejected OB as expected. Cairo, Lewwyn and Superdeath are the remaining players to meet.





NO MORE TURN SPLITS! But it's almost T100, I don't know if I can even maintain a greater than a turn a day pace at present. Also this screenshot is wrong: building a worker in Kalamazoo this turn (need to dump the overflow ASAP because going to take the pig back on T98 or T99 to stop ITM growing into unhappiness), Currency still due eot.

[Krill]

I have a present for you all: a bandwidth eating world map (3.1Mb)

[Krill]

Turn 97

This is going to be a bit longer than T96, but it will be split into two parts. Some of it is going to be the previous rough workings post rewritten for my own benefit though, and tidied up with correct turn dates now that I know what is happening with IW.

The new world map is above. The only comment I can really make is that OH got screwed, and looking at the map reinforces how little there is to gain by attacking him.

First of all, the easy stuff: exploration, which is already shown in the world map.












I reckon that I will need two galleys and 4 fast movers to scout the rest of the map. One east, one west, and a possible third going south with another two fast movers depending on if I can get them out. City R will get out one galley, so the galley used for settling the island will go west as previously stated; it will pick up the 8XP chariot and a scout.

Tech doesn't really have a heading to fit under, but I'm going for IW in three. I could get it in two, but the cost is that the few cities I have on workers and settlers would need to stay on wealth, and it would delay hooking sugar and hooking the fish for the sugar city, delay incense, settling cities R and G, and hooking food at gems city (Smashing Thirds). The one turn delay is not that costly, but delaying it a further turn doesn't really save me much. The cost is almost every city is going to be on wealth though. Gems will be hooked T103, so cities can grow eot102 into unhappiness.




Given I will be able to play around with the wealth builds after the first turn, ITM may be able to put a few hammers into a market, but more likely it just slowly grows, with growth due eot101 unless I swap from a cottage to a hill mine, which is planned to time growth. Or more precisely, ITM will pick the pig up after IW, whilst saving gold so the Academy is defunct, and work as many hammer tiles during those turns. It requires 9 food to grow, so it is trivial to work max food and grow it when necessary, and requires little thought.




LBJ will hopefully turn off wealth next turn, and make 13 foodhammers next turn to get the settler to 50/50, and still whip the settler T99. This settler will settle the sugar city, City B, on T105. It needs to grow to be able to work every tile including the village eot97 (so avoid growth turned off), and food box will be 20/30, regrowth@4 eot100. Probably regrows on an archer to size 5 eot102, I do need them.





Given that LBJ has priority for turning off wealth, MtK is likely to run into unhappiness issues and require turning on Avoid Growth. Looking at putting hammers into the worker on T100, but might be able to squeeze it in T99 to complete T103 Given the settler for this area actually runs all the way from AM, I am considering using workers to road the incense (have to do this within 10 turns anyway), the plains forest and the capital flood plain to speed the settler reaching here. Still working on that due to timings due to the wealth builds, but the critical issue is that MtK becomes more important to get off wealth than AM.

Beyond that, I need to get the grasslands improved, yet more worker turns, so there is still the possibility of a worker double whip after this worker anyway.





There is still nothing to say with this: 15 more turns of working scientists means no other tiles can be worked without the corn, and AM is using it. At least this is one place that does not requires worker turns!

I'm now being turfed off the PC because the missus needs to do work. I'll finishes this up in a few hours.

[Krill]

Turn 97 Part 2




OK, now it gets a bit more difficult.

I'm going to make a play for MoM, in Kalamazoo. No doubler, I'm possibly going to be the first to Calendar, this position needs commerce for tech and I'm considering using Serfdom for the period between golden ages rather than Caste because we will have more watermills and windmills than workshops. We have no need to pop out two GS for an Astro bulb, and we have no religion at present, nor likely anyway to spread it for Pacifism. The extra turns in a GA to pump out some more points become increasingly valuable (and it will be trivial to use Caste in the first golden age to get out the 300 and 400 point GP for the second golden age and hold onto them).

With that in mind, I want Kalamazoo as large as possible before Calendar, but that is only size 6. It only needs size 8, to work both pig and deer and reach 25hpt though. Realistically, that means size 6 with food box full to only need to generate the minimum amount of food needed to reach size 8. No more whips. It will get there just by using the pigs when ITM can't use them. There are also the two mines that need finishing, but again, they can wait.

This worker in the queue will need to be finished to help hook the incense and road to City G location. After IW is completed, finish the worker eot101, then take the deer and drop the hills; it can grow eot102 as the whip unhappy wears off. Ideally it will use the farm one turn whilst building wealth, on T99, which would mean growth@5 eot102 and growth@6 eot103. I'm currently guestimating Calendar to be around T108 but that is not based in any evidence, just gut feeling, and still need to hook resources to be able to grow.





This settler will settle City R site. You can see the road heading off towards that location. BCR does not need the deer for the settler, but JJ can't use the corn and Kalamazoo can't use the deer if it is using the pig, and ITM can't use the pig. After the settler eot102, growth into the gems happy on the sheep and corn, a market, and some military. Axes, for the Rome border. BCR is just using whatever tiles are left over at the moment.





Workboat for WB. Micro doesn't need posting, swapping between sheep and plains hill, corn and grass farm as needed. Expensive city to grow and no real need to do so. Probably whip a settler here, but need workboat eot108 for the island city fish. Given that this workboat completes eot99, I can't get the settler out before I need the next workboat. I could fit in a worker double whip and overflow, but meh. More likely to just get the workboat close to completion then go for the settler, and finish the workboat eot108 to save on unit costs. No need to try anything flashy.





If this city builds the settler for City G, then it will likely stay on Wealth until T99, then on T100 dump the overflow, whip settler T104, which means I need the road over the incense completed on T106. I can't get it completed before T107, and given there is absolutely no work done on a road to the front city location, this is looking more and more like a bad idea.

Given that City R is settled T104 and the workers are finished T109 (and available to mine the two remaining hills here, I could double whip a worker if I dumped the hammers into a worker "inefficiently", and then just complete the settler later. More likely I just send the settler the long way around: City G could be settled T110 with road in place to the front city going around the peak so OH can't see it until the settler is already on the tile, and I can even get the incense road down whilst doing this.

So keep with the plan: settler eot104, regrow to size 5, work the hills, build wealth or units. Need a farm, this place grows slowly: workers from City R can do that on the way back.





Sorry for the micro, but...Worker whipped T98, workboat T99 12/30, growth@3 eot100 workboat 13/30, mine completed and worked T101 for 6 base hpt which leaves the work boat one hammer short of completion eot102, one hammer short leading to one turn not working the improved fish. I can't see a way around that issue that doesn't involve the whip, and whipping it again after this worker is...awkward. I could do it, and I think it will still be able to reach size 4 and work the mines after borders pop. After the workboat I need an archer for the Sugar city, I need a spear for this city, and I'll probably need more workers.

You can see that OH has a chariot here. I'm slightly paranoid that now he has signed peace with DZ he is considering an attack, but I have greater power, he has a tech whole, and he needs to climb out of it. But he also needs land, and I'm not sure if he views that as the greater concern. So after this worker/work boat combo, I'm much more interested in beefing up this cities defences. Of course, OH could also be concerned that my power has climbed, and his has dropped, and that I might be ruthless enough to invade for some marginal cities.

Fact is, I'd rather he get Calendar and trade me some dyes.





With gems hooked T103, and thinking Calendar will fall T108-ish, I will only 1 worker to chop the sugar dye.  Given that 3S will not pop borders until eot106, I will let the mining worker get the chop in, so the two workers at ST can farm the wheat T106...or chop a granary.

Now here is something I've not seen discussed before: We all know and accept that granaries boost food, but is growing always the right choice? ST is 13 tiles from the capital, and JJ is only 9 for comparison. I expect costs to be roughly 50% greater per pop point, so obviously the gems are worth working, but beyond that...? Given I am planning on building wealth, is there a point where the costs of the pop point in per turn commerce are greater than the value of the improved tile it works. Does it not make more sense to build/chop a barracks to pop borders to work the second gems and slow build a granary, rather than chop the granary, and grow and have to put a medium production city like AM onto wealth to pay for the extra 2-3 pop points that are working a dry wheat and, at best, a farmed river plains.

I'm guessing that culture is the right play here, not the granary, especially as it will grow eot109, and I can only chop a granary T107 saving 4 food on growth to size 2. Better to double chop a library T107 and the one pop whip it on T110, borders pop eot115. Farm is finished T110, second gems is roaded T113, and chopped by both workers T115 (gets the worker back on the road network) and can be mined by a one worker T119. ST would regrow@2 eot115 (gems T110, wheat until growth). I'm pretty sure this is the quicker way to getting both gems and the wheat worked, rather than the granary first: the granary could be completed eot113 via the third chop, with 14 food in the box, avoid growth T115, grow eot116 saving 11 food and overflowing 4, and growth@3 eot119, so T120, granary and library in place, both gems hooked and worked.

Granary first would be chopped T107 as stated, but then the library couldn't be whip until size 4, and the third tile available is only 1 food. I'm just going to take this as read that Library first is actually the right choice, not granary.

The downside to all this? 3S will have absolutely no worker support. I need to bring them down from the north.





Oh lord above, this city is fucked.

This city needs machinery, every tile is watermilled or windmilled with about 2 farms. So unless I waste turns improved tiles I'm about to then bulldoze, it is only of value to me as a whip city. More likely, it needs to whip a lighthouse. Granary is chopped T102 though (the signs state when I need to move workers to those forest due to the failed Mids chops). Corn farmed T104 because the chops take precedence.  Avoid growth T104, growth@2 eot105, growth@3 eot106, growth@4 eot108 and lighthouse whip T109? Seems legit, it can pick up the plains hill to give some hammers if needed, otherwise, I just want to get the workers somewhere useful. Likely galley whips from here if we start settling west.





No change:

The island city is settled next turn. Corn hooked T99, two forests chopped T103 and T104, library whipped T105, borders pop eot110 and should aim to have fish hooked T111 and the third forest chopped for the granary T111 as well. I'm reconsidering keeping two workers here, because another option is to grow and whip a settler here for the other island city: this would hook the sheep T114 as opposed to T117, and more importantly, it means I can send the galley south, pick up 2 chariots and go exploring. If I intend to bring a worker back, that would mean the galley has to wait until T104 to get the worker back, that is 11 tiles of exploration the galley is delayed by.

No screenshots, but I believe I had 8 trade routes yielding 1 commerce per turn before settling, so afterwards, I had 10 trade routes yielding 2 commerce.

Question to lurkers: can you workshop tundra tiles that are not freshwater? I don't think so, but just want to make sure.

[Krill]

There is a bit more to come, but I think that is (with any hope) most of the words. It's just demographics screens to come.

Unfortunately, I still only have OH's graphs, so there isn't much to look at.

[Krill]

Part 3





43 gold, that is how much wealth builds are contributing at this point.

There are 3 more settlers in production, and we have space for a further 7 cities and 3 fillers. Courthouses will need to come, but I still feel that CoL comes after HBR. Unit cost is impossible to manage except through vertical growth: some of us will be limited on that (not superjm or Gavagai whom both seem to have multiple happy resources already hooked). Max bpt though is around 160 without research builds, but if we put everything onto wealth we would only make 70gpt so we can't run 100% slider without saving gold.





Called it. Gav and all his happy resources give him the pop lead. He still has fewer cities so we aren't in an impossible position, but not much is going to improve it except trading for happy resources. No one has spares.




F5. That is one miserable military. But this is worse:




I'm not seeing an attack here. I'm just seeing his scouting as, well, scouting. OH knows the entire map of our land, but doesn't know what we've done with it.

The rest of the demographics are below, the only thing of note is that OH has hit his happy vertical and horizontal cost limit as we have.

So 2 chariots lost, one at 99.4% against a warrior, on at 80% against a warrior in a city. 3 warriors lost, one at 50% which is fair enough (attacking out to defend a sheep pasture at LBJ), a 90% on defence against a warrior and a 90% on defence against a lion. And we're killed 18 warriors...? I would not have thought it was that many. I did delete one rather than let it die to an axe.




*Grumble*




This looks to be a pretty good position, but without happiness resources, it's going to be very easy to cap out again. So exploration needs to be pushed, to check the islands to the SE don't have some resources we want, same for the islands to the west. So even though I've written this entire report, I'm going to go back and figure out where I can get galleys and chariots out to scout with.

[Krill]

Let's summarise, in 100 words or fewer.

We hit horizontal and vertical expansion limit, but OB+Currency, and soon IW+Calendar fix both issues. Other people got more lucky with resources. We got lucky with land and neighbours. We are probably in the best overall position. We need to trade to solve resource issues but can trade 1 gems and 4 furs in the long term. IND is still a dead trait. We have no way to bulb Astro so Portugal is fantastic. I hate superjm and I want MoM. I need to explore more, there are no great neighbours to eat.

That's 93. Think I missed anything?