T110 to be written today, and it will be a full report, so the traditional world map is here. It is big, 4.4Mb.
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[Spoiler] PB42: Rusten and mackoti play Krill playing Bismarck of Portugal
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Turn 110
Larger update now that the war with OH has been put to bed and I can consolidate my current thinking. So you get a new world map and pictures of every relevant tech screen (F3 is irrelevant, you heard it here first). The world map is above. It's worth looking at because it looks like we have a broken donut with islands, or even a single good island, surrounded by myself, superjm, OT4E, Gav and Cairo (clockwise in order from myself). This is the area that us five players are going to interact, and looking the scoreboard shows we are the 5 leaders: Gav with Elkads land, OT4E with his AGG/PRO musketeers and efficient empire, superjm with Mids, Cairo with his soon to come online ORG Sacrificial alters on a low food and low happy map, and me with...antagonism and bile. It makes me question where everyone else is, because the map looks highly populated in this region. If Elkad were alive this would be 6 players in what looks like a third of the map width. More likely players started further away and grew into this region, so I am underestimating the amount of land that we cover. Still, the map looks fairly cool. On to the report, with the scouting first.  The workboat that found Gav is going to see if these cities are on the same continent as OT4E. If not, you can see that as I know have OB with OT4E, I am going to try and get through that gap. Given that OT4E looks to be on the same continent as superjm and that probably goes all the way to the north pole, I think there is a gap. It is a high sea level, Big and Small map: to have a continent cover that much land would be unusual. More on the recently signed OB with OT4E later.  The scout was unloaded in the Roman city, moved to the hill (there is nothing visible) and reloaded. Next turn I will move the galley forward and unload both scouts: one of the scouts will head towards OT4E, the other will cover superjm and also check the northern coast. The galley will retreat to then pick up that other scout and check out the central islands area. Note there is not even a defender in the city. FWIW, I have 4 scouts exploring now. That is 60 hammers saved over chariots. I'm not sure how I feel about this, because the chariots have a measure of survability unless they walk up against an axe, in which case they die a bit less than the scouts would. I couldn't afford the extra 60 hammers though to make them all chariots, and I couldn't get any sentry chariots, so...it's a choice I made and right now I'm standing by it.  I had the workboat sitting by the culture until I signed OB with OH again. He passed it with a galley, and didn't take the opportunity for vengeance for the lost chariot. I think our relationship in this game is as good as it is going to get. Cairo has a damned nice bay to get some naval production out of though, without the cities being exposed. I wonder how valuable that will be, but I am expecting it to be really important that OH has the city that sits on an island at the mouth of the bay: he will have one hell of a forking opportunity if he pushes to galleons quickly. I reckon OH might even make a play for the barb city an back fill, but I don't know if OH knows it exists, or it claims iron  Lewwyn has some really weird land if he is half my size and settling tundra cities. I don't think he has Whales, or silver, so why settle this city? Deer? For Tundra deer?  Right now this island has limited strategic significance, but it does have marble. The only viable city locations are on the marble and 1N2E of the crab, both cities with outer ring food but double inner ring forests to chop for culture buildings. I'm toying with the method of settling the marble city first to claim the island, given that I expect to be in Caste in 20-30 turns and could just use the caste artist to pop borders even in a GA. Still hoping for silver or whales. Before I do the cities though, I'll go through some of the F screens:  Overview for later. Every city that has nothing better to do is on wealth, making 23gpt. As Rome has no defender in their city towards me, I'm stopping building units in BCR and going for wealth.  I make about 40gpt at max tax every turn, so the wealth is important. At max tech it is 240-ish base bpt and costs of 150gpt. Given Lewwyn and OH at a minimum have MC, and I expect at least superjm, DZ and OT4E do as well, I should get between 1.24 and 1.3 modifier on MC. In short, I should be able to get it by eot113 IMO.  Everyone is being stingy with OB, but I've got a full set of routes in my cities. I wonder if other players have ignored Alphabet? OT4E may have gone through Maths to get both Currency and Calendar (I don't know of any way to tell if players have Currency now I have it though). Cairo has Alphabet, OH does as well, but the rest?  superjm is not in caste (smart move IMO) and DZ is only player in HR, so it looks like Fued is not going to be beelined by anyone. Given players are likely taking MC, it could be that Machinery is high on everyone's list. Xbows (and OH's chucklenauts) may play an interesting role. Trebs too.   I hate this screen. Gav has spare ivory, I'm trading for OT4Es spare gold, Cairo has furs, no one has much spare of anything. I traded my only gems I had hooked for gold and OB with OT4E. Now that is potentially an unwise thing to do: he is the main competitors for MoM. However, I do not feel that it will matter: if OT4E is heading for MoM, he will beat me to it, I don't know when he got Calendar but I suspect he beat me by a good 5 turns and I was not prepped for MoM at Kalamazoo. And I need the routes.  Gav has burnt his gold, don't know what he got. I hope he has only just reached Alphabet. because he is in a good position. Given that OH and DZ are the only players making over 50gpt at the moment, I reckon everyone is playing PBEM5B and balancing expansion with going broke. Kinda makes me want to grab CS and Paper to look at the tech position.  This is the 6th strongest military in the game. Behold my mighty scout.  Has anyone ever tech Machinery before Mysticism? One option I am considering is saving gold on Myst and then overflowing out a turns worth of research to try and make Machinery a little safer to persue. If I can push 300 base bpt at that point then I would be able to get Machinery to 720/1127, but I don't know if I see the point. Save gold on Myst so OH doesn't see what I am doing, but I just don't need Myst except for an easier border pop at City S. Machinery needs roughly 315 base bpt to be a 3 turn tech, and 235 base bpt to be a 4 turn tech. I will need a good 400 gold saved before I can research it.  OH has the best shrine, but I don't see the point in trying to capture it. It is too exposed to hold. Focusing on the shrine is what led me down the path of attacking Gav in PB27, and I need to remain open minded. Given I will not be able to get a Prophet out for my own shrine, I may as well just run Judaism, or see if I can take over the Confucian shrine from superjm depending on the location. 
T110 city screens (ITM through JJ)
 ITM has to give up the pigs to Kalamazoo for the MoM push. That means it is going to grow slowly at 4fpt onto every available grassland and then onto every 1 food tile. Once the forge is down, then the happy cap will jump up to 13. HR will increase that to 14, resource trades will generally be worth 2 happy (dye and spice excepted) so from this point on ITM is growing to max size. Without the pig and with maximum windmills that will be size 16, 17 if it keeps the horse. ITM will need to take the pig back to reach that size, and 3 windmills. Given ITM can only reach 8fpt, and it cannot have the pig back until MoM is built or falls to another player, I expect:
Beyond that, ITM should be able to have the pig back, and then it is growth roughly 3-5 turns to size 16, generating 125 excess food, which should be achievable by around T140. Health is improved by hooking a wheat, cow and crab, so healthiness is no issue until size 15. There is an offshore clam and an EXP aqueduct if needed, so health is irrelevant unless I want ITM to keep the pigs permanently. I reckon that Kalamazoo will just end up keeping the pig though, except when ITM is building OU and needs mines. Order of the day is wealth, then the forge, then back to wealth.  Finish the worker, onto a market, worker improves the grasslands with cottages and grow. Given I have settled for the iron/fish/crab city rather than the filler city, I am considering saving 2 forests for the filler city granary, but more likely to just clear cut into LBJ because I need to work those tiles as cottages and windmills, and will not want to give up the grass sheep. I can lumbermill two forest if needed at Machinery anyway, one forest will get chopped into a forge and then it is only a 5ish turn build. Happy cap will be 12, but enough food to work 3 grassland cottage and 7 plains cottages plus the food. And it doesn't stop growing at 7fpt until size 10 except to time city improvements for the happy cap bump.  Chopping both grassland forests into a forge and roll over onto the market: the incense is improved T112 but the workers become split, easy to delay chops so they both occur on T116 into a forge. Even though MtK has slightly worse food output than LBJ, it will probably end up with the 3 unique grass cottages and the 4 unique plains tiles: In fact MtK and LBJ will work all the flatland tiles as cottages, but if they were workshops most of them couldn't be worked at all. So I'm sticking with the plan to grow onto none river plains cottages as the least worst option.  I will whip a lighthouse after the GS is completed: just regrow onto the coastal tiles and prepare to be dumped onto plains cottages for the GA. Still have to farm the tiles NW and 1N2W of the city post CS, and a plains hill windmill. The spear is at 4/35 for emergency purposes. Given the lack of growth here, and the limited hammers, I'm just leaving the city on wealth but I will chop the market. The forge is unlikely to pay itself back if rushed, although probably worth building in a GA if able to work the plains tiles.  If anyone wants to look at micro: if MC is due eot113, then Kalamazoo will be size 7 and only invested 69 hammers into MoM. T114 and T115 it is trivial to make 16 hpt and chop one forest on T115. T116 make 21 base hpt and have MoM at 100/450 with overflow, make 3fpt. Growth@9 eot120, MoM 204/450. Put new pop and grass farm poop onto plains hills, -2fpt, 18 food in the box, 29 base hpt, 36hpt, MoM due eot127, eot126 with deer forest chop. If MoM falls, I still get the shiny forge and not failgold, and the forge pays back before the end of the MoM build  superjm has no units near me except his scouting chariot. OH seems to accept the border situation and not fighting a war between ourselves. No point building these units so instead go for wealth. After MC, going to get the forge, but without the deer it is very difficult to grow BCR without also crippling JJ. I will farm the river plains and grow onto those in preparation of moving the population onto watermills though. After the forge is, I reckon wealth will be better than a market given the need to actually get to Machinery. Growth to size 11 needs to be prioritized, because I will want to get one HE down here in the GA. Forge eot117?  Before anyone asks WTF is going on here, You can see I do have very few tile improvements, and this is an expensive city to grow. The food is being allocated to cities that need to grow, and I can double whip this settler for the City S location, or for that marble city, or wherever it is needed. I can survive without more workers, but I will still have to get settlers from places and I have enough of a happy cap here to just keep on doing size 4>2 whips whilst the important cities grow. I will have to regrow JJ to size 5, needing 40 food to achieve to stagnate on both furs, plains hill mine and two farms. This is food that would otherwise go to BCR, but I'm weighing up that decision against the need to get settlers: I can stagnate BCR if growth timing seems to be working, and build a settler whilst regrowing JJ on the sheep, corn or both. If JJ takes the sheep and corn for 5 turns, and BCR works an extra plains farm at size 7 with the forge, BCR makes a 5 turn settler, whilst losing 10 food. JJ can, in those turns, get from size 2 to size 4 with an almost full food box and prepare for another settler whip. That would give me 3 of the 5 settlers I need, or more likely, more settlers for the islands city.
Remainder of T110
 The workers are not available to finish improving AM, so it goes around the whip cycle again. Settler whipped T117, and by that point the grassland and a plains tile should be farmed so it has tiles to grow on. Given City Q to the north basically works nothing but watermills and AM has no great tiles to work, I don't think there are choice except: windmill the hills, farm the plains and workshop the 4 grassland tiles, or windmill the hills, and cottage the plains (one of which needs to be grown for ITM anyway). Given the former turns the grasslands into 1/2 tiles right now and I can't farm most of the plains, I reckon I'll cottage the tile because there are nothing else to work and I'll be leaving slavery soon. Probably dump the chop into the forge, same with the whip overflow from the settler, which are 42 of the 60 needed hammers.  Oh, fuck ups galore. 3S got punished for the war dec so I need to pull things back together. I have 21 hammers of overflow sitting behind the wealth build, and I need to make 16 food hammers per turn to two turn a worker. The copper is hooked T112, which allows the worker to complete eot113. I'm delaying the sugar hook up slightly due to the need to get the Granary in the sugar city (Sold American). This worker can be used to hook the sugar T115, or chop more forests, or whatever. Quite likely to send this new worker to TX to start preparing that city which has been neglected since T75. With the grassland hill mined, the forge will be a 5 turn build. I don't see any other city improvements as needs (lighthouse would be nice for 2fpt though, but it isn't a need). Likely to finish the spear and archer but I intend to get the forge then whip a settler for the fish site. I need three workers to chop forests for a library to pop borders and a workboat from TX for the fish but I reckon forge first and those two units. Worker eot113, archer eot115, spear eot117, forge eot119? Settler eot124 without a whip? That would mean workboat needed eot127ish from TX.  Borders pop eot and fish is hooked. Forest is chopped and growth@3 eot111 as well actually. Whip the granary T112 anyway, regrowth@3 eot114, work sheep, growth@4 eot116. Sheep hooked T117, growth@5 eot118, Lighthouse whipped T119, then dump overflow into a forge, grow to size 5, whip, regrow to size 6 on wealth, dump overflow into a settler and whip that for the other furs city, then grow to size 10 because I need it to work 7 specialists at a food loss to pop out a great person (7 specs in GA = 42gppt, 400 point GS or GM, probably GS. After the GA, it will need to build the NE: this is why I am interested in the marble, I really need hammers here. 8hpt, forge and marble give NE in 18 turns. 7 Specs in a GA, with NE, 63gppt, so with prep work, easy 700 point GS here.  No change: Quote:I'm guessing that culture is the right play here, not the granary, especially as it will grow eot109, and I can only chop a granary T107 saving 4 food on growth to size 2. Better to double chop a library T107 and the one pop whip it on T110, borders pop eot115. Farm is finished T110, second gems is roaded T113, and chopped by both workers T115 (gets the worker back on the road network) and can be mined by a one worker T119. ST would regrow@2 eot115 (gems T110, wheat until growth). I'm pretty sure this is the quicker way to getting both gems and the wheat worked, rather than the granary first: the granary could be completed eot113 via the third chop, with 14 food in the box, avoid growth T115, grow eot116 saving 11 food and overflowing 4, and growth@3 eot119, so T120, granary and library in place, both gems hooked and worked. Well, one minor change: double mine the gems so I have that happy hooked on T117. Get the fp farmed: the copper mine worker can mine the grass hill T117 and then farm the fp, completed T119 with the two gems mining workers. Probably go market before forge here? Happy cap is irrelevant, no good tiles to work. Grow to size 6 and double whip the market?  Yay, food to burn. WHIP ALL THE THINGS! Just finished a spear in the capital, so the previously defending warrior reaches WB on T112. Whip the lighthouse T111, hold the overflow (13 hammers) behind wealth, dump overflow into a forge T114 and whip it T115. hide the overflow behind wealth again and grow to size 6 and whip a settler around T120. That's 7 settlers planned. Grab market as well Once Machinery is in, then watermill the few necessary tiles (the grasslands and two plains) and stop whipping. Given that I can't get Machinery before T125, then out of the 5 whip unhappy, only 3 whip unhappy will be left with a happy cap of 12, so it's more than manageable. Again, second HE city, so I need to grow it but I also need to get the infrastructure in place now.  You can laugh at me now. I rushed out this city but there is nothing to actually do with it. The best plan I have come up with is to single pop whip the archer at size 4, T113, and dump the overflow into a forge and whip that at size 5, then regrow to size 6 and whip a settler around T122 (8th planned). Stacking the whip unhappy here as with WB. Probably fit a worker whip in as well. But the moment I settle City Q, NW gives up the sheep: City Q gets everything here. NW gets crippled. Lighthouse, granary, forge, walls is about all it gets. And probably a barracks at some point. I may struggle with workers in this area, but NW is getting a grass farm built so it has 3 tiles, and that is all for now. The workers go to City Q for a Library chop on founding and a granary chop once borders pop, granary @size 2. If I whip NW a bit harder, I'm OK with that. Working none caste workshops is dire without Guilds.  Two turns of improvement on the sugar, it would be hooked T113 but fuck that. Moving the worker to the forest, and chopping that T114, whip the granary T115, and the worker finishes the sugar on T117. Then likely need to double whip a lighthouse to have tiles to work. Library at some point, but probably a forge double whip then a library triple whip...or would be. I need to use SA to get a gpp in the first golden age, but to finish the great person in the second golden age. So I want a lighthouse and growth (probably get the forge for happy though). Running a food deficit, looking at size 10, 7 specialists and popping out the 500 point great person here. Theoretically I could pop the 400 point GP here, and store the points in the NE city, but I figure I can stretch and get at least the 500 point, maybe even the 700 point one here: It will not be able to get more than one great person and I'd like it to be the most expensive one I can make it. The best thing about going for the 500 point GP here is that if I do it as a GS or GM, I could probably finish it before the second GA even starts. That is risky though, because this city is exposed, and I don't want accumulated gpp to be easily taken away and wreck the whole GA plan.  This is the other NE city, lower food, but again in a GA it can hold 7 specs for long enough if the city is large enough. It also has hammers though, it can hit 18 base hpt (22 adjusted into the Industrial NE because that has no marble doubler). Same plan applies: pop out a great person, build NE in the golden age and afterwards, and then get another GP in the second GA. Given I will need 2 GM, 2GS and a single great artist, I need to figure out where I want to go for the GA. That would probably be best on Sold American, but then that arouses suspicion. Probably best to get the GA from either AC or SW, but I'd prefer to do that as the 300 point gp rather than work so many artists in a city I don't need the culture. The reality is I would prefer to get the 300 point GP as a GA and get it from Sold American, and then see if I can really push SA to get the 700 point or even 800 point GP in the second GA. I don't know if that is possible though. Then I can get the 400 point GP as a GS, and the 500 point as a GM, because I can get easier access to merchant slots as EXP. That would mean the 400 point would have to be from AC, the 500 point from SW as that can build the necessary infrastructure if needed. Save the artist for whatever other needs, or the third part of the third GA with a further GS and GM. If I missed MoM, the same plan basically occurs in permanent Caste with no issues over timing.  I don't care about this city now that I have it. farm the corn, chop the forest into a granary and whip at size 2, then a barracks, and finally a lighthouse. Mre likely to skip the barracks due to caste artists availability. It needs to grow on coast because it has nothing else to work. And I'm done. 4000 words and it still doesn't saying about how to win the game. Answer: Kill everyone with knights off Carracks.
The natneg server is the same as for PB38, I think the only change is the mod, 4.0.9.2 which is here.
Turn 111
Brief report, but graphs on superjm in the spoiler tag at the end of hte report.  The barb city is going to die quickly, either to me or to OH. He doesn't know that I have the other two chariots in the area, but he will do next turn. I could raze the city T113 at the earliest.  Still nothing on the island. Probably space for 3 cities, but I will have all tiles that are claimable from the island visible as of next turn. I am considering getting a 9th settler somewhere to claim the entire island before the GA starts, so I can pop borders with caste artists. Only hope for happy now are whales and I'm not holding out hope for that, but holding this city protects my northern cost which is going to have 2NE and a HE accessible by coast, so I kinda of want it for that.  The sugar is improved but OH lacks Calendar, and the iron shows itself to be hooked but does not show in the available resources to trade. I believe OH has settled on the sugar and mined the iron without knowing.  superjm has a coastal holy city, and Moai built already (stone is nice to have). Antium is his second city, Cumae his third. I don't know why he built walls unless he is terrified of me, or OT4E has tried a naval invasion in the past, but that makes no sense.  29 food down on Gav. OH did not finish MC last turn, I am waiting to see if he gets it this turn. Long shot theory: someone else settled on OH's sugar and OH is deciding what techs he needs to get to remove the interloper. tl;dr: superjm is only a threat if he creates a window of opportunity with Medieval era units, but my reply are Xbows, HA and Carracks and sink everything at sea. Given my weakness in coastal production, that would likely not work, but would cause enough of a delay that I would crush whatever landed. Knights are going to be the best window, but I don't know if he will get a tech edge large enough to make that work, not if we land MoM.
Turn 112
 Note HG fell. More on that later. 89% odds to kill a warrior, which means I should lose the chariot.  I don't and it gives OH a straight forward route to raze the city if he has two axes on his galley. I'm not fussed if he razes the city, it is worth about 4 gold, otherwise only worth XP, which means, best case, I can promote one chariot to C1/F1/Sentry, and the other chariot will sit on an unused promotion. It can't grow eot. I threw my dolly out of the pram when I saw OH's settler, I have to expect a reprisal. OH might think that I am more pissed off with his attempts to screw about with me though, and I don't see a way to show him I really don't care that much about this barb city. Yes, it would be nice to capture it, saves me a settler, but in the scheme of not having to piss about fighting with OH? It doesn't even register. I'd be more annoyed at losing the opportunity for the sentry chariot TBH.  Galley can heal in 5 turns. This is an island though, so the scout is going to sit around for a bit. If you look at the world map, it becomes quite obvious that there is a weird choice here: I can send the galley back for the second scout, and be back where it is (in terms of scouting) in 6 turns. Or it could head north, drop of the first scout and then retreat to pick up the second scout, and be back in place in 8 turns. Or I could just abandon the second scout and run forwards to check out Lewwyns' land. I believe the long way round is best, and then return to pick up the scout and finally head forwards. I don't like sending galleys scouting without loads, so after it dropped the first scout off in Lewwyns' capital area, I would end up retreating the galley anyway. That would be a T119 drop off, T120 pickup and T128 double drop off in Lewwyns capital.  Oh, this island is somewhat typical: no happy resources. 3 food resources but placed swkwardly. I'd like to plant a city on the plains tile of the 2 tile island, but there are no food resources. The obvious city location is the northern tundra tile, and the second city location is on the marble or the tile north of it. I figure this is really a three city island, but the marble is the most southern viable city location and that means the third city goes either east or 1N2E of the crab for 3 unique land tiles and 3 unique coastal tiles (4 if the crab is second ring). I suppose the argument is the marble city picks up two grassland tiles with that, but it's not the best use of a settler. Main issue is all the food is second ring, so without Caste or Music, cities are useless. I figure, best case, Caste T130. I need a galley to transport 3 settlers, 2-3 workers and I need 4-5 archers at a time I'm looking at pushing research to get into a golden age with all the necessary techs. The settlers I can make work. The galley isn't a problem. Work boats could be a bit difficult but SW can build them easily enough with the grass hill and iron. It's not knowing when I can revolt to Caste that breaks it.  Cairo has a shit dot map area up here. That southern fish requires settling on the iron or flatland desert, and being exposed to OH's island city.  The big news of the turn. Next turn I will have this entire peninsula scouted and a scout at the next city down towards OT4E. This is perfect for a naval invasion. Completely accessible, all the goodies behind a choke point, held by a player struggling to keep up in growth, hammers and power if not in tech. superjm has to be the first target. Lewwyn is too far away and score shows he has shit land. OH has difficult to hold holy cities and limited late game production. mack, your aim whilst I'm away is to break him.  It's not Ottawa porn but given all other capitals are coastal, this is likely the best capital in the game.  I thought about chasing HG, but decided against it: my reasoning was that although it could be worth more hammers than it costs, I'm just whipping the population away if I have a limited happy cap: turns out I would have just gotten it as the happy cap rises, but I'm still limited in my growth until I can get forges down. I'm not sure I would have beaten Gav either: he has stone for a 250 cost for aqueduct and HG, but we would pay 350. What I'm more interested in is that Gav has Maths but no OB, so likely does not have Alphabet. Unless he has gotten Currency, his tech pace must be suffering. I doubt it will long term, but...he has stone. Did he go for Mids? Is that the fail gold he had when I met him? If he had gotten Mids it would not be game over, but the next phase would have been trying to keep up with him and being reactive rather than proactive.  I'm going to assume for the sake of this turn, that Gav has 20% of the world population. On T109 I had 47 pop points and Gav had a maximum of 65 (showing 18%, assuming 19%). I have 59 pop, up 12. He should have a maximum of 86, up 21. But that is after getting 15 pop points from HG, and after he whipped about 12 pop away on T111. Yes, he whipped cities, he got production...but into what? Markets? difficult to triple whip but possible. More settlers? Ultimately, we are a large distance apart and I need turns to get out more settlers, and grow vertically. I expect Gav just got Currency and he has the highest MFG, and is double counted in the GNP which has just hit around 200 the last few turns: He is going to try and close the gap technologically and then eat someone else. I reckon either of us could win this game without attacking the other, by forcing a concession.  If Gav has 20 pop over me yet I am only 26 food behind him, then I reckon I'm catching him up in population, and we have Carracks and Feitoria and double national wonders against PRO. Still a decent position to be in. |
