GeneralKilCavalry and thestick talk it out

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Yes, Arcole should probably whip a spear to protect Toulon from a fork and accompany the axe. After that, settler.

I cannot believe that superdeath is running anything other than a skeleton military. If we were a bit closer, I would axe/spear rush him.

[thestick]

Er, wait, we can't whip Arcole T62 since the whip anger wears off T66 and we only have 5 happy. Guess we slow-build it?

He has roughly the same power as us, at least according to the graphs from a turn or two ago.

[thestick]

T59 Pre-Report

IW came in.

   

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

I guess we send the Toulon Settler to Orange, build a couple of praets, then use them to defend Green. EDIT: Though if we could find Spears to defend against possible Cairo raids...

EDIT: Minor wrinkle, this delays the Toulon/Arcole chop from T64 to T66, so we have
T64: 30/100
T65: 43/100
T66: 56/100 +13 +20
T67: 89/100 +13
T68: Settle complete

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Wow, two sources of iron and we're already mining one. Excellent luck, and will speed up arcole's development massively.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

I'm not happy.



Cairo just forward-settled us and violated our settling agreement. We have iron at the ready, I beleive we should get a settler out of arcole and start training praets. Switch whatever we have planned for Lodi to praets as well. He's not intent on allying with us and we need to knock him out fast.

I will sleep on this and inform gavagai.

[thestick]

I don't think it's worth going full tilt over. Yes, we should keep an eye on Cairo, and yes, we should forward some praets to keep him honest and strike if the opportunity presents itself, but the site is 7 tiles from his cap and 10 from ours. I don't suspect that they'll be any crucial resources there, we can still settle other land, and going full war economy would hand SD the game on a silver platter. Plus from what I see it has rice and Copper second ring, and without a good way to pop borders, it won't be very productive for us.

Yeah, inform/sound out Gavagai. Do we have any recon on how close SD's settling blob is to our borders? I fear that we might end up with two hostile neighbors.

EDIT: So the plan would be to slow-build a Settler in Arcole, and whip a praet out of Toulon?

EDIT 2: Though I do think we need to keep in mind who we're hoping to keep on our good side. I have no idea what to do, but we'd better not embitter Cairo too badly if we expect that we'll need him to stay out if we have deal with SD.

[thestick]

To make myself clear, my thought process is 'why invest a lot fighting for far-away land good when we can settle Green dot and have nearby amazing land'? Judging from the maps Cairo sent us T25, besides the second-ring Rice and Copper, it has first-ring Stone and second-ring Marble. None of those resources are worth total war for (Rice is nice, but it's 6 tiles from Cairo's capital. No way we can hold it). Meanwhile, we can pick up Stone/Marble closer to home, in a site that's basically pure grassland.

Though if we do attack, the city is on flatland, so that's nice.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

So, our axe defeated that spear near Lodi, it's a bit damaged but that's ok. I am torn what to build there next, however. I think a settler could work pretty well, it'll pop out on turn 65 with a chop.

Alternatively, we can go for a granary, preparing the city for extensive military whipping.

Finally, we can build another worker, which will take 3 turns, and then go for a granary and more military.

In regards to arcole, perhaps it is wise to whip it this turn before it grows to size 4, so that it regrows to size 3 instead. It does not have good tiles to work, and the 18 hammer overflow (24 when you add in the expansive effect) will be extremely useful for popping out a worker fast - 3 turns, in fact. Moreover, this would allow Toulon to use the crabs instead of the forest for a few turns while the cottage is still in production, since due to rounding as I have calculated, we will gain an extra 2 hammers due to rounding in arcole next turn, compensating the the transfer of the crab, so we end up with more F/H overall between the two cities.

Alternatively, if Lodi starts a worker now, we can have Arcole put overflow into a barracks. This would provide some urgently-needed cultural expansion in the area, giving access to horses.

Any other suggestions?

Edit: I'll hold off on finishing the turn for now, because this is actually pretty important micro.

[thestick]

Updating the micro.

Could you elaborate on the 18 hammer overflow in Arcole?

Gut says Barracks in Arcole (we need those Horses, and that Orange city isn't happening), Granary in Lodi, and military/Settler in Toulon (burn our last chop there). Settle the Green city, then consolidate, build praets, fill out Arcole/Toulon's cottages, etc.

Though am tempted to skim out another Worker from Lodi, or free up our Scout so that it can actually scout. Especially to see if SD's Quechua is the vanguard for a new city.

What are you hoping for the next tech? Sailing? Am okay with that. Where are you hoping to settle the next city? Think it has to be green, it's defensible and powerful.

...does the Pyramids get 50% with Stone? I thought it didn't, but Civpedia says that it does.

EDIT: If we go for Green, the biggest problem will be military. Workers will be alright, we can and should share cottages with Toulon, and steal Murat (Lodi) for cottaging duty once he finishes chopping at Lodi. We can't hope to chop all of those jungles/forests in a reasonable timeframe, so we'll have to rely on multiple units to block possible avenues of attack. I still think Granary -> Praets in Lodi is the best move, since I don't think building more Axes will be productive when praets are just 2 turns away.

[thestick]

How's the diplomatic situation looking? What was our settling agreement with Cairo that he broke?

I think we're too focused on war. Sure, we have an amazing UU, but that doesn't change the Commodore Doctrine: land wars of conquest against compotent opponents are not game-winning moves. Plus the basic fact that 2v1 is a terrible situation, that even if we defend against an attack we're set back economically, and that us getting into a slugfest means that Gavagai and TBW with their alliance on the other side of the map can run away with the game.

I think we should start sounding out SD for a NAP. If Gavagai isn't playing us for fools, SD should be feeling pressure from his border with Gav, and should be receptive to a defended border against Aggressive Rome. Plus, he has Sailing, so he'll see when we hook up Iron next turn. Call it a bit of gunboat diplomacy. Then we can focus on Cairo.

Meanwhile, Cairo is a black box diplomatically. We haven't met Raskol yet, so we don't know if they're enemies or chummy. The big fear is that he has an alliance with Raskol, so he can focus his attention against us. We have no idea how he would respond to a NAP.

More importantly, we need info. What's Cairo's situation with Raskol? Why did he forward settle us? How close are we to SD? I assume that his nearby Quechua is just a scouting unit, but if his military is miraculously all Quechuas, well, that changes the calculations. Ideally, I can stop jumping against threats on all borders, so we can focus on landgrabbing, development, and sharpening our swords in preparation for Construction.

EDIT: Of course, the ideal situation is that we get NAPs with SD and Cairo, landgrab for 30-40 turns, tech Construction, and go destroy someone. But if we can't work with Cairo, we might as well try working with SD.