[SPOILERS] - social distancing with pindicator

[scooter]

I actually didn't realize Gaspar had been gone for so long, though I've been sort of in and out for awhile myself. Seems like a lot of old faces have been resurfacing lately, which is nice. I suppose the current state of the world might be causing some of that. How many dollars would the kickstarter require to see a true Gaspar + Noble game again?


+1 to pindicator nudging you in the direction of the CTH thread.

[Gaspar]

Oh yeah, I am definitely excited to see Gaspar!  Doubly excited to see him post his thoughts on trait balance.  Although I have a request for you now, Gaspar:  Take everything you wrote in that post above and copy and paste it into the Close to Home discussion thread, otherwise Charriu won't see it until this game is over (or he's eliminated).

Dang, we just need a Regoarrarr sighting and it will be like 2013 all over again.

Funny you mention it, I just randomly re-read that game I played where rego semi-dedlurked me when I wanted a nice relaxing game and ended up against Seven, Mackoti, Novice and Serdoa.

I'll transfer that to the CtH thread at some later point.

[pindicator]

138

While we're talking to Charriu about his mod, I think we need to talk to him about Inflation




I've been noticing this is rising pretty steadily and now has gotten to the point where it accounts for a significant chunk of my expenses. Speaking of expenses, I don't know how other people are keeping everything under control or how Mr. Cairo and Mjmd are able to maintain 150+ gpt incomes. Are they doing what Miguelito suggests in the Close to Home thread and not actually teching anything? They both have been earning gold for some time, though Mr. Cairo really has a similar number of technologies as myself. Really my problem is I'm so spread out and that's causing all the city maintenance issues you see.

However, you can't deny that people are really saving gold more this game:




It's made me think that I really need to add Markets to the necessary infrastructure list - at least for cities that have 24 commerce or more. Considering that Machinery and Guilds are going to take a LOT longer than I thought - I fell down to 50gpt at 0% out of the golden age - then I need to have some more lasting economy decisions. Wealth Builds are tempting too but I'm making sure that I'm only building markets in cities that can make up the equivalent wealth builds in less than 20 turns. The capital really needs one as it's pulling in over 50 commerce, but it doesn't have great production and was delayed before due to getting triremes out earlier.

I don't like that I'm delaying unit production for another round of infrastructure, but considering how long it would take to get to Guilds I think this is right. Again, I'm trying to only build markets in cities with high commerce.

I don't want to head to Code of Laws as I only have a few cities that are getting close to -10gpt maintaince. But my GNP has tanked to near the bottom of the pack so I need to do something:




Though it is nice to have double the next player's mfg.

Also, Cothons are not worth building any more - at least not until I can get more foreign trade routes. Speaking of which, Jowy asked for my Sugar again:



And since I'm hooking up Dyes this turn, I again told him he could have sugar for open borders.


Last bit, we're about to mop up those triremes that superdeathhas on my north coast:




Next turn superdeath will move to the tile where my clam is at to pillage it and I will let him, because then I will move my 3 galleys and 3 triremes to the tile that his stack is on right now. And then his stack will be trapped and cut off. I've been keeping my main navy stack on the ocean tile where he can't touch it and where I can attack any reinforcements. But next turn we'll have 6 boats against his 4, and then I'll whip 2 more triremes that are being built right now in Lincoln and Coos. Then we'll mop up his boats.

Edit: I'm silly, he has open borders with Mr. Cairo


PRO: 45 (1607)
FIN: 41 (1368)

[pindicator]

Honestly this feels like one of those bigger strategic questions that I'm going to look back on and wonder if I got right: markets or build wealth? I think in general markets because with forges & org rel the markets are a lot cheaper, and they'll be worth it long term. But part of me thinks I just need to zoom to Guilds

[NobleHelium]

I am also skeptical of the inflation changes after seeing Miguelito explain it in his post. Previously I thought the inflation change applied to all players equally by looking at the tech speed in the game, not that it would be different for each player. I don't really think the game needs more anti-snowball mechanisms that are specifically targeted at leading civs.

[Gaspar]

I actually didn't realize Gaspar had been gone for so long, though I've been sort of in and out for awhile myself. Seems like a lot of old faces have been resurfacing lately, which is nice. I suppose the current state of the world might be causing some of that. How many dollars would the kickstarter require to see a true Gaspar + Noble game again?


+1 to pindicator nudging you in the direction of the CTH thread.

I'd do it for a grand. Get crowdfunding!

[pindicator]

I am also skeptical of the inflation changes after seeing Miguelito explain it in his post.  Previously I thought the inflation change applied to all players equally by looking at the tech speed in the game, not that it would be different for each player.  I don't really think the game needs more anti-snowball mechanisms that are specifically targeted at leading civs.

I brought it up in the Close to Home thread, but I'm not even sure how much the Inflation I'm seeing now is different than what I would see in a normal game. We're not at a fast time for our technology rate, for certain, in fact the game seems to have slowed noticeably in its tech rate. My last turn showed 43gpt cost for Inflation. I would say that if more than 10 of that is due to the changes in the mod then it's causing a noticeable drag. If it's up by >20 then it's way too much for this stage of the game.

[pindicator]

139

I probably should have just asked for a pause or another extension on the timer, but I ended up playing this turn super tired. Thankfully there weren't too many decisions to make. And there was a mix of good and bad news:




First of all, a barbarian galley came from out of the fog and won against my galley. I was afraid of this happening last turn when I dropped off the settler but after it didn't happen on 138 I thought I was now in the clear. If I had put the galley one tile farther east I would still have it this turn. As it is, I had to whip the trireme complete in Klamath in order for that city to save its work boat from being pillaged again. It's rather annoying how many times I've had my work boats pillaged this game.

AT swapping himself to Free Religion was a strange thing to see - if only because I don't think he's in a golden age and I know he's not SPI. Also, I'm not sure how many religions AT has but perhaps it's enough to give a significant boost to his science rate.

Mr. Cairo starting his golden age was expected, but I keep waiting for Mjmd to start his. Both Mr. Cairo and Mjmd have been saving gold for some time and this turn Mr. Cairo did turn on the science rate so I expect we'll see soon whether he goes for Bureaucracy and Civil Service or towards knights. Honestly if he's not planning to attack someone with knights then Civil Service is probably the right call. Or rather: he should also consider looking at Music and picking up the free Great Artist. All things I wish I had time to do. For instance, I would love to get the Epics built before the big knight push but I just don't think I can take that kind of detour. After Machinery I'll look into that more.

But the biggest surprise can only be spotted by the sharp-eyed here: my income has gone up by over 20gpt! Which means that yes, Jowy did in fact give me open borders for my Sugar.




And wow, suddenly the majority of my foreign trade routes are going through Jowy. Now all of my cities are filled with foreign trade and that settler on the southern island has no real purpose. Not entirely true, we should settle him. But with my only southern galley destroyed there is no reason to settle now. Better to wait for the missionary and workers to arrive and only then to do so as it will be quite the hit economically. Or should I lose my fill of foreign trade then I certainly will settle then.

So the buddhist missionary that was going to be assigned to the new island city is instead heading east to Harney to help the borders there. The missionary at Crook is going to go to the island city of Columbia, and I will build a new galley out of Belisarius to shuttle that missionary as well as the worker off that island.

Suddenly, Machinery is now a 3t build and I am not quite as pressed at getting the markets in (although I still should!). Also, Cothons are back on the menu!

I do wonder what caused Jowy to change his mind on giving the PRO leader open borders, but I think some of it may be Mjmd taking the score lead, building MoM, and starting to look like a real threat if nobody messes with him soon. And yes, I certainly have thoughts of messing with him! For instance, what if I whipped up my knight army and then suddenly signed peace with Superdeath? Not likely, as it would require cooperation from Superdeath and then I'd have to contend with SD in 10 turns anyway, but it's still good to keep these possibilities open.

Speaking of Superdeath, he did not go after my fishing boats at Lincoln




And here is where I mayi have been better served by playing the turn fresh. I decided I did not want his stacks combining and so went after the smaller pair of triremes, throwing a pair of galleys in at them, both losing but both still getting the above-average result of 4 hits. I finished one off from the safety of the ocean tile and then used my last galley to kill his second trireme, then deleting it. So I lost 3 galleys to kill 2 triremes. I also whipped a trireme at Coos and so should have 6 triremes in the area within 2 or 3 turns. Considering my triremes will be Combat 1 and have 50/50 odds of winning the first attack, I should clean up his units barring a streak of bad rolls.

I also whipped a couple forges in spots where it was smart to.

I also forgot to count FIN tiles before ending turn, so this is an approximation based off where I know I whipped and last turn. I'll try to look at it first thing next turn in case I missed any obvious ones.

PRO: 45 (1652)
FIN: 41 (1409)

[pindicator]

140

Mjmd has taken the score lead for the first time this game, and Jowy had a big battle against Charriu




I would assume that was Charriu's Great General who died because I'm not sure if Jowy has even had one generated yet.  But Jowy lost about 80k power - going from being even with me at just shy of 500k soldiers to this turn showing as me being 1.2x his power.  I do hope that Charriu can hold Jowy off.  If Jowy eats up all of Charriu quickly that could very well propel him to frontrunner status.  I've been rather impressed with Jowy so far this game, and while i would like Mjmd to have to worry about both of us on his borders I do not want a runaway on the other side of the continent.

Meanwhile, Superdeath moved all his caravels edit: triremes south a tile - I assume he was worried that I would be able to pick off some of his units and stay at the safety of the ocean tile.  I'm just going to let those units stay until I can either mop them up or he forces me to do something about them.




Down south, the barbarian galley went to an odd tile.  So I moved up the whipped trireme and hopefully that will be the end of all barbarian galleys in this area, as my settler is at least fog-busting.  I started a galley at Belisarius because I need one to shuttle the missionary being built up at Crook to the island city of Columbia.  I put a missionary into Harney this turn, deciding that this was the biggest need for +25% hammers and a border pop.  But I still need three more missionaries here:  for Klamath, for Curry, and for the settler in the southern island.  I do rather want to get a temple in Klamath and start running a priest here just to give me better odds at a non-scientist as well as a possible shrine.  (Oh that's why Mjmd has such a good income!  Forgot he had built his shrine.)

And finally, I turned on the research as I can just get Machinery in 2 now.  The watermills are going to be helpful around Yamhill, and possibly some windmills in the hilly northeast and south.  However we're really just about the knights here.




Guilds is just shy of 1500 beakers to research.  I am making 425bpt at 100% and losing 300gpt. I'll need about 900g to finish Guilds, and with me making 80gpt right now then we're looking at 14 turns to Guilds after Machinery is done. I'll probably be closer to 100gpt thanks to the markets I'm building right now so we'll say 12 turns. Hopefully Wealth builds can drop that down to under 10.

Also, it's nice to be making more mfg than my neighbor who's in a golden age.


PRO: 45 (1697)
FIN: 41 (1450)
I did in fact miss a newly formed village last turn, so I've updated the last post.

[pindicator]

141

Mr. Cairo is right behind me in getting to Feudalism




And Superdeath is right ahead of me in getting to Machinery




Trying to be really sparing with the whip. I also put Coos on a forge instead of more trirmes - that might be a mistake. First longbow is out and headed to the Cairo border; the second will go to the Mjmd border. And really just another quiet turn.

I also have graphs on all players for the first time all game. See spoiler

PRO: 45 (1742)
FIN: 43