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RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Speaker and Sullla

Darkmantle Wrote:What exactly is the objective of this war?

Avenge Byzantium!

Darrell
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Darkmantle Wrote:Are there any firm plans for how to proceed if you manage to capture Hoth?

What exactly is the objective of this war? Is it to completely capture the Ottoman empire? Or is there a point at which you would like to stop and consolidate.

The goal is to eliminate Kathlete from the game and annex all his land. We're economically strong enough by now that that shouldn't be beyond our means. The only question is whether we're militarily strong enough to pull it off.

If for some reason we can't kill Kathlete, we want to cripple him and leave his empire a shattered wreck that's no longer a threat. Basically, there are only two other teams that pose a real danger to win the game: Nakor and Kathlete. We are going to take out one of them here, and then take out the other one later on (because we don't have the right technology at the moment to fight Nakor's rifles). We will only stop if we absolutely have to do so, for some reason (e.g. Nakor launching a sneak attack or something).

It's a realpolitk strategy, but it's also personal. Remember this?

[Image: RBPB2-151s.jpg]

And this?

[Image: RBPB2-162s.jpg]

Karma's a bitch, ya know? hammer
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darrelljs Wrote:Avenge Byzantium!

Darrell
I guess it's time to let the cat out of the bag. We asked KAthlete to eliminate you guys, to be sure we would win the thread post competition. Sorry!

"There is no wealth like knowledge. No poverty like ignorance."
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Sullla Wrote:It's a realpolitk strategy, but it's also personal. Remember this?

Memories... of the way we were....
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Speaker Wrote:I guess it's time to let the cat out of the bag. We asked KAthlete to eliminate you guys, to be sure we would win the thread post competition. Sorry!

I'm sensing a "bizarre internet outage" coming wink
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sunrise089 Wrote:I'm sensing a "bizarre internet outage" coming wink

Give me the amount of free days those plucky Aussies are getting please! lol
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw
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Turn 205 is finally underway. (The timer ran all the way down to zero yesterday/today, with no one logging in during the final 12 hours. I hope there was some reason for that, Kathlete/Nakor...) Per clock rules, we can't move any units until the second half of the timer, but I can do some number-crunching on our opponent in this upcoming war:

Overall Stuff - Kathlete
Total Cities: 17 -> 18 (us)
Total Population: 119 (#3) -> 189 (us)
Total Beakers: 12,914 (#3) -> 24,101 (us)
Soldier Count: 514k (#3) -> 1186k (us)

25 Turns Ago
Total Cities: 15 -> 17 [UP 2 cities]
Total Population: 134 -> 119 [DOWN 15 pop]
Total Beakers: 6334 -> 12,914 [UP 6580 beakers]
Soldier Count: 602k -> 514k [DOWN 88k units]

[Image: RBPB2-444s.jpg]

Soldier Count Breakdown
Population: 59k
Technology: 96k
City Improvements: 46k
Units: 313k

The numbers suggest that Kathlete's empire has largely stagnated over the past 25 turns. They made little progress in terms of adding cities and territory, while actually managing to decrease in overall population and military power as a result of the long, debilitating war against slaze. In retrospect, the two attacks on Inca were horrible mistakes which dragged down the Ottoman empire from possibly the strongest in the game into an also-ran somewhere in the middle of the pack.

Keep in mind that when I did this comparison 25 turns ago, Kathlete had a military equal in power to ours! My how the times have changed... [Image: wink.gif]

City Improvements Breakdown [our team]
17 Granaries [16]
13 Libraries [11]
10 Courthouses [6]
9 Forges [15]
8 Markets [5]
6 Barracks [14]
6 Grocers [6]
3 Hammans [2]
2 Lighthouses [5]
2 Colosseums [0]
2 Buddhist Temples [12]
1 Buddhist Monastery [12]
1 City Walls [7]
1 Academy [1]
0 Universities [9]
0 Monuments [5]
0 Stables [4]
0 Banks [2]
0 Castles [2]
0 Jails [1]

2 National Wonders (Palace, Heroic Epic) [7: +Oxford, +Moai, +Forbidden Palace, +National Epic, +Globe]
2 World Wonders (Buddhist Shrine, Oracle) [4: Notre Dame, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Apostolic Palace]

Looking at the city builds, we can see how Kathlete has emphasized different priorities in build their civilization. We're roughly the same in terms of granaries and libraries (a plus for our team since we're not Creative!), but Kathlete has chosen to emphasize markets, grocers, and courthouses much more than we have. These group of buildings cut costs and increase total gold output, but increase research only indirectly through savings. Can't fault their team for this, as Kathlete does not have Education and won't be getting it any time soon.

Leaving aside buildings that Kathlete simply can't build yet because they lack the required technologies, I would argue we have three major advantages just from the city builds:

- Production: we have a forge in basically every city. While Kathlete has a very respectable 9, we're got a major edge with 15 forges. Then you look at our 24 combined temples/monasteries (all producing AP shields), and that translates into a giant advantage... even before counting our 60% edge in total population.

- Military: Kathlete has 6 barracks to our 14. We have 7 walls to his 1, two castles to his zero, and 4 stables to his... zero again. Our empire is just much, much better at producing experienced units and defending against attack if need be. I said this 25 turns ago, and it bears repeating: not building a couple of stables in your top production cities, when you've had Horseback Riding tech since the early BC years, is a significant mistake. smoke

- City Specialization: Kathlete has built only one national wonder (discounting the Palace), the Heroic Epic in Hoth. In contrast we have 7 national wonders spread out across our cities, each one tailored to a specific need. Think of how much value our team has gotten from wonders like Moai, National Epic, and Globe Theatre! You ignore these free resources at your own peril.

Even Hoth shows poor use of city specialization. Compare the infrastructure of Hoth to our St. Albans:

St. Albans (16): Forbidden Palace, Barracks, Stables, Granary, Aqueduct, Forge, Monument, Courthouse, Jew. Temple, Jew. Monastery, Heroic Epic, Hanging Gardens

Hoth (14): Granary, Barracks, Library, Forge, Courthouse, Market, Grocer, Heroic Epic, Oracle

All of the buildings in St. Albans were coordinated towards three goals: building the Hanging Gardens (aqueduct), building the Forbidden Palace (courthouse), or increasing its shield output for Heroic Epic. There are no wasted builds here: no libraries or markets or anything like that. It's a pure production city. Hoth, in contrast, has a library and both market and grocer - huh? These are wasted builds in a Heroic Epic city with nothing but farms and mines. (Remember the prodding T-Hawk did when we paused St. Albans just to build the FP?) What's more puzzling is that both the market and grocer were built during the past 25 turns, so either Heroic Epic was delayed to add these gold-boosting buildings, or they were added after the HE was finished. Either way, it's a bit of a misplay. (Keep in mind that Kathlete captured Hoth long before we captured St. Albans, and Hoth has better terrain too. It should be way ahead in any comparison!)

Hoth is already our planned Iron Works city, should the game go that long. I wouldn't mind having some of those buildings survive capture... lol

Anyway, we couldn't do anything game-related today, so hopefully tomorrow will be more interesting.
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Sullla Wrote:Per clock rules, we can't move any units until the second half of the timer, but I can do some number-crunching on our opponent in this upcoming war:

Uh, what?
Current games (All): RtR: PB80 Civ 6: PBEM23

Ended games (Selection): BTS games: PB1, PB3, PBEM2, PBEM4, PBEM5B, PBEM50. RB mod games: PB5, PB15, PB27, PB37, PB42, PB46, PB71. FFH games: PBEMVII, PBEMXII. Civ 6:  PBEM22 Games ded lurked: PB18
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So I guess you guys are lightning in a bottle and earthquake in a can. Nice.
Civilization IV sure runs like a dream on my new computer.
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Krill Wrote:Uh, what?
Uh, we uh intend to uh declare war on him uh next uh turn, so uh we uh need to uh move after him this uh turn, to avoid uh double moving.

"There is no wealth like knowledge. No poverty like ignorance."
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