BUG Questions

[NobleHelium]

I don't know if that change should be put in - it's not normally available and it can't really be accurately derived in most situations. Seeing exact tile culture on a tile that you've just defogged after 100 turns seems weird. And I say that as the person possibly most obsessed with tile culture.

[Charriu]

That's actually a very valid argument not to implement it. BUG should only provide information that is already there, but in an inconvenient way.

[Gaspar]

I say that as the person possibly most obsessed with tile culture.

I can vouch for this.

[Borsche]

I don't know if that change should be put in - it's not normally available and it can't really be accurately derived in most situations.  Seeing exact tile culture on a tile that you've just defogged after 100 turns seems weird.  And I say that as the person possibly most obsessed with tile culture.

It absolutely can be accurately derived in almost all the situations you would care about. A border clash like that generally gives you LoS of the city producing the culture, so you can algebraically determine how much culture you and they have generated on the tile. Yeah I'm not going to know the culture generated on a tile when I'm invading the 4th guy, but I don't think I really care about the border war there anymore (or at least too much)

[Borsche]

That's actually a very valid argument not to implement it. BUG should only provide information that is already there, but in an inconvenient way.

I'm sorry but that makes no sense. If it did that then it wouldn't give you the true estimates of the hammers or beakers or whatever yield that a building/wonder would give you. Especially for buildings that boost trade routes, which are a very esoteric mechanic. And all the improvements you made to  graphs should be removed with that logic.

[NobleHelium]

I can't believe you just claimed that the tile culture can be accurately derived in almost all culture war situations.

Kiki has been settled since t44. This is t127. We would eventually gain control of the tile in 7-13 turns (judging from what pictures I have available), but I had no idea from the percentages when that would happen, because the tile culture amounts were in the thousands (possibly close to 10k). Not only do you have to consider the perspective of whether I would be able to accurately derive the tile culture for a culture battle lasting almost 100 turns, you have to consider whether my opponent would have sight into all three of my relevant cities since they started generating culture and be able to derive the culture so that he would know when he is due to lose the tile and whether he can do anything to mitigate that. All of this is relevant information. Yes, if the tile culture tooltip had infinite significant digits then you can algebraically calculate it. But it doesn't show that.

And this doesn't cover complicated scenarios like if a third party takes Kiki and wants to check whether a culture bomb can claim a certain tile. There are many simpler scenarios where you might settle a city later and then try to culturally take a tile, but you can't accurately calculate the culture of an older city because you weren't anywhere near the area when the opponent's city was settled. You need to know exactly when each city started putting culture into a tile and the exact tile culture amount every turn starting then up to the current date. To say that this is information readily available in almost all relevant situations is laughable.

[Old Harry]

The lines on the graphs are awesome Charriu, but I have a minor nitpick: The scale factor resets to 1 every time I close and open the graphs. Any chance the scale I pick could persist over a session (or even between logins)?

Also the time period shown seems to reset to show the whole game when closed and reopened - in vanilla I'm sure it remembers the chosen time period. If that's not possible would it be okay to set 50 turns as the default instead?

[Charriu]

I see what I can do about those things.

[Charriu]

The lines on the graphs are awesome Charriu, but I have a minor nitpick: The scale factor resets to 1 every time I close and open the graphs. Any chance the scale I pick could persist over a session (or even between logins)?

Also the time period shown seems to reset to show the whole game when closed and reopened - in vanilla I'm sure it remembers the chosen time period. If that's not possible would it be okay to set 50 turns as the default instead?

I had a look at it (apparently again). Unfortunately it's not possible and only for the dumbest reason. I can set an other value as a starting value for all those dropdowns and the game will also use that. The only problem is that the UI developers of Civ 4 didn't really thought things through. When I set a different value for all those dropdowns the dropdown itself won't update and I also have no way to set the currently selected value for the dropdown. So yes I could set for example a starting value of 10 or the 50 turns, but the game will always show the default value of 1 or Entire History in those dropdowns. This of course is bad UI that does not represent the actual state, which is why I won't do it.

If anybody knows a way to set the current state of one of those dropdown widgets via code, just let me know.

[Cornflakes]

Could you work around the bogus dropdown state by replacing the first dropdown entry with a no-effect entry titled "ADJUSTS SCALE"?