RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[Maniac Marshall]

Turn is completely complete. Tried to write up the stuff, but nodded off. Going to take a nap, will do the writeup later.

[Maniac Marshall]

Here is a detailed plan for Fierias. Just keep following it. There are no workers currently working in it's area.



PRIDE ROCK

Pride Rock is building a catapult. After it finishes it, it should build another. The catapult should be sent to "green dot" which will be built shortly.

Tilewise, it's borrowing a grass cottage from Temminck this turn only. Next turn it should swap off to the plains farm that is under construction. It should run that set of tiles till it grows.

IT currently has 2 workes in it's area. One should finish the plains farm, the other should go chop that jungle.

TEMMINCK

Temminck has just double whipped a temple with maximum overflow. Next turn, it should put the overflow into a 1 turn worker. After that, it could either build a pike or the University. I'm a bit worried that we've fallen to 10th in power. It's your call. We need both.

It will grow next turn, and should take the grass cottage back from Pride Rock with it's new pop point.

There currently are no workers here, but, one will be born in 2 turns, and should start chopping the jungle here. Also, one should be brought up from Ornata to windmil one of those desert hills as soon as the Farm there is completed in 2 turns.

FENG SHUI

Feng Shui has just double whipped a temple with maximum overflow. The overflow should be put into a 1 turn worker. After that, it should finish the missionary and start another.

Tilewise, when it grows next turn, it needs to start working the grass hill. Keep working that set of tiles until HV grows enough to take back the cottage they share, then switch to the other cottage. If it grows again before I get back, it has a plains farm to grow into.

The new worker that will be made here shortly should start clearing the jungle.

KILRAH

Kilrah is building a Knight, after which, it should start pumping out a pike every other turn. Send the Knight to Green Dot, and the Pikes to each of the cities along the southern front.

Tilewise, it will grow next turn and can start working a newly completed farm. It will grow AGAIN before the next improvement can be finished, and should just work an engineer until it can get an improved tile to work. NOTE, it should not work the specialist till size 14.

HUCKAWNG VALLEY

This city just quad whipped a grocer. Next turn it will complete and should have enough overflow to make a 1 turn settler. The settler should head over and found Green Dot. I'm hoping that Refsteel will have a plan for this city after that. We need more settlers out of here, but obviouslt, not next as it needs to grow back. He'll probably want a picture of the city and want to know how much food it has in the box. Baring any plan, you pick what to work on while it regrows. It needs a Library, a market, barracks, and an aquaduct.

Tilewise it needs to keep working the FP farms while it regrows, then pull in the cottage it shares with HV

Worker wise, the workers have just completed a road to help the settler get to green dot and settle on turn 134. Yes, building it just outside our boarders wasn't optimal, but I misclicked so it got built here instead of 1N. The workers should go COTTAGE that last remaining FP, and after that, they should cottage one of the grass. The other grass I think would need to be farmed, not sure.

ORNATA

Keep building the forge until it can be whipped unless you have a better plan.

Tilewise, just keep working the tiles it is working.

The worker on the left should finish roading that tile, then move to the floodplains and start farming The other 2 should both farm the one floodplain this turn. Next turn, one of them should finish it, and the other should move up to work on Temminck by making a windmil on one of the desert hills.

RED DWARF

It's working on it's grainery, which will be chopped up. After that, queue up a forge.

Keep working the FP Farm, then pull in the cottage it's going to have shortly.

Woker 1 finishes the cottage, then moves 1w, puts a turn into a farm, then next turn moves to the FP and farms. Worker 2 finishes the chop, then farms the FP.

Smithsonian Park

Just follow the plan for it below. Note, there is a detailed worker plan for this city.

Turn 132:

Smithsonian builds a granary, working the eastern pigs.

Toulouse and Berlioz road; complete.

Nala chops and CANCELS orders.


Turn 133:

Smithsonian builds a granary, working the eastern pigs.

Toulouse and Berlioz move 1SW to a plains forest, chop, and CANCEL orders.

Nala chops; complete.


Turn 134:

Smithsonian builds a granary, working the eastern pigs.

Toulouse chops; complete.

Berlioz moves 1W-1NW to a river plains tile just south of the northern pigs; roads; CANCELS orders.

Nala roads and CANCELS orders.


Turn 135:

Smithsonian grows to size 2 and completes its granary! It builds a forge, working both pigs.

Toulouse moves 1W-1NW to Berlioz's river plains tile and roads; complete.

Berlioz moves 1N to the pigs, pastures, and CANCELS orders.

Nala roads; complete.


Turn 136:

Smithsonian builds a forge, working both pigs.

Toulouse moves 1N to the pigs; pastures.

Berlioz pastures.

Nala moves 1W to the pigs and pastures; complete.


Turn 137:

Smithsonian builds a forge, working both pigs.

Workers move 1SW to a floodplain, farm, and CANCEL orders.


Turn 138:

Smithsonian grows to size 3; builds a forge, working both pigs and an (unimproved) fp.

Workers farm; CANCEL orders.


Turn 139:

Smithsonian grows to size 4! It builds a forge, working both pigs and both of the far-western floodplains.

Toulouse farms; complete.

Berlioz and Nala move 1S to a floodplain, farm, and CANCEL orders.


Turn 140:

Smithsonian grows to size 5!! It builds a forge, working both pigs and all three floodplains.

Toulouse moves 1S to a floodplain, farms, and CANCELS orders.

Berlioz and Nala farm and CANCEL orders.


Turn 141:

Smithsonian grows to size 6!!! It builds a forge, working both pigs, all three floodplains, and a grassland forest.

Toulouse and Berlioz farm; complete.

Nala moves 1E to a floodplain, farms, and CANCELS orders.


Turn 142:

Smithsonian builds a forge, working both pigs, all three floodplains, and a grassland forest.

Toulouse and Berlioz move 1E to a floodplain, farm, and CANCEL orders.

Nala farms and CANCELS orders.


Turn 143:

Smithsonian grows to size 7, and builds a forge, working both pigs, all three floodplains, and both grassland forests.

All three Workers farm; complete.


Turn 144:

Smithsonian grows to size 8! It builds a forge, working both pigs, all three floodplains, both grassland forests, and an unimproved river grassland.

Toulouse and Berlioz move 2S to a pre-farmed river grassland and farm.

Nala moves 1N-1NE to a plains hill and mines.


Turn 145:

Smithsonian grows to size 9!! It builds a forge, WHIPS it for 2 pop, and works both pigs, all three floodplains, and both grassland forests.

Toulouse and Berlioz farm; complete.

Nala mines.


Turn 146:

Smithsonian regrows to size 8, and builds a library, working both pigs, all three floodplains, the grass farm, and both grassland forests.

Toulouse moves 1N-1NE-1N-1NE to a grass forest.

Berlioz moves 1N-2NE to another grass forest.

Nala mines.


Turn 147:

Smithsonian regrows to size 9! It builds a library, working both pigs, all three floodplains, a grass farm, both grassland forests, and its northern plains hill.

Toulouse chops.

Berlioz chops.

Nala mines; complete.


Turn 148:

Smithsonian grows to size 10!! It builds a library and WHIPS it for 2 pop, then works both pigs, all three floodplains, both grassland forests, and its plains hill mine.

Toulouse chops.

Berlioz chops.

Nala moves 1S to a plains tile and farms.


Turn 149:

Smithsonian builds the National Epic, working both pigs, all three floodplains, the grassland farm, and the plains hill mine, and an Engineer specialist.

Toulouse chops; complete.

Berlioz chops; complete.

Nala farms.


Turn 150:

Smithsonian grows to size 9 and completes the National Epic!



Move military as required. Defend the south cities with it, especially green dot.

We should be getting a taois missionary soon. Send him to convert HV.

Work calls, gotta go. Will check in one final time before leaving in aprox 10 hrs to answer questions etc.

[RefSteel]

Welcome back, Morgan - many thanks for your help, and I hope all is well!

I'm assuming Maniac ran a gazillion [EDIT: Engineers] at HV.

This is the spreadsheet I put together on that assumption.



See below for further notes.

[RefSteel]

The spreadsheet above was also created under the assumption that we really want a Great Person there at some point in the nearish future, that our preference is for a merchant, and that we still want to get those two settlers out as quickly as I said could be done. It assumes however that we will be FARMING the last floodplain at that city however (complete by T137) at least at first - we might cottage over it later, though I *think* it would be better to build a couple grassland cottages at some point instead. Of course, this plan also assumes a grassland farm completed by turn 139. The reason for all this farming should be obvious: We're trying to build massive amounts of infrastructure, plus three settlers, in this city, over a period of about 20 turns, while also generating a large fraction of a Great Merchant. In the absence of ANY hammer tiles (desert hills still don't count) that means food, food, more food, and yet more additional food.

Morgan: Please let me know if you have any questions about these spreadsheets (or anything else). Note that the spreadsheet indicates the amount of food that should be available at the start and end of the turn, the number of hammers that should be in the box for each build (after whipping where applicable) and the number of hammers (including food for settler/workers) to be added. If any of those numbers don't match what you see in the game, please let me know! Also, if we won't finish an fp farm at Hukawng Valley by turn 137, OR won't finish a grassland farm there by turn 139, please tell me what will be done there instead (e.g. cottage instead of farm or farm delayed to turn X) so I can adjust the plan accordingly.

On Temminck: I advise a University rather than a Pike. I'm not real excited about Pikes - the reasons are similar to those for which I wasn't excited about building maces - but also note that Temminck is Commerce Central, trailing only our Bureaucratic capital for sheer commerce output. A University there will be worth at least 10.5 beakers per turn at 100% research, where we're likely to be more or less indefinitely, and that figure will be growing rapidly.

Also at Temminck: We can't possibly need a desert windmill badly enough to spend eight worker turns (including the movement) on one at this stage of the game. I would have the worker-to-be-built at Temminck worker start by roading (instead of chopping) the jungle tile just east of the city while the worker coming north from Ornata puts a turn or two into farming the pre-farmed plains just SE of Temminck and/or chopping the forest 2SE of Temminck. Another alternative would be to ROAD one of the hills between Temminck and Ornata. In any case, once the road on the jungle was complete, both workers would get together to chop and cottage the spot.

On Kilrah: I advise working almost anything *but* an Engineer while it's waiting for tile improvements. Assuming it's still working forests, a whip would be much (much!) better, preferably just before growing onto the engineer. Otherwise, almost anything - an unimproved grassland even - would be better than trading two food for two hammers. We'll never get a Great Anything out of Kilrah.

EDIT: In case it isn't obvious, Morgan: Please note that just because I said something more recently than Maniac does NOT mean that I'm necessarily right. Where he and I disagree, please use your own judgment. And of course, feel free to post a suggestion that's better than EITHER of ours!

[Maniac Marshall]

I'm assuming Maniac ran a gazillion [EDIT: Engineers] at HV.

This is the spreadsheet I put together on that assumption.

Incorrect. I quit running one because you suggested I quit.

The spreadsheet above was also created under the assumption that we really want a Great Person there at some point in the nearish future, that our preference is for a merchant, and that we still want to get those two settlers out as quickly as I said could be done.

I'm more worried about the settlers, but yes, the great person is ideal.

It assumes however that we will be FARMING the last floodplain at that city however (complete by T137) at least at first - we might cottage over it later, though I *think* it would be better to build a couple grassland cottages at some point instead. Of course, this plan also assumes a grassland farm completed by turn 139.

Thats doable. you have 2 workers free immediately. The FP farm can be done T135 and the grass one T137.

The reason for all this farming should be obvious: We're trying to build massive amounts of infrastructure, plus three settlers, in this city, over a period of about 20 turns, while also generating a large fraction of a Great Merchant. In the absence of ANY hammer tiles (desert hills still don't count) that means food, food, more food, and yet more additional food.

Nothing to add here

On Temminck: I advise a University rather than a Pike. I'm not real excited about Pikes - the reasons are similar to those for which I wasn't excited about building maces - but also note that Temminck is Commerce Central, trailing only our Bureaucratic capital for sheer commerce output. A University there will be worth at least 10.5 beakers per turn at 100% research, where we're likely to be more or less indefinitely, and that figure will be growing rapidly.

Whilst I agree on the awesomeness of a university here, we're now a distant 10th in power. Sooner or later someone is going to notice that we're spamming out techs for PAT behind our army of cardboard cutouts. I think we need some military so we don't invite the 30 horse archers to come visit us instead of Carthage. If I were in CUDDLE, and I saw us, I'd be begging for an attack on us. Also, Pikes are better than muskets against mounted units. Don't think if we get attacked there won't be some backwards (no cav) mounted units in the stack. What if we did 2 turns on a pike, (22 hammers) then double whipped it, overflow into the university?

Also at Temminck: We can't possibly need a desert windmill badly enough to spend eight worker turns (including the movement) on one at this stage of the game. I would have the worker-to-be-built at Temminck worker start by roading (instead of chopping) the jungle tile just east of the city while the worker coming north from Ornata puts a turn or two into farming the pre-farmed plains just SE of Temminck and/or chopping the forest 2SE of Temminck. Another alternative would be to ROAD one of the hills between Temminck and Ornata. In any case, once the road on the jungle was complete, both workers would get together to chop and cottage the spot.

Fine with using the 2 workers to road then chop then cottage the jungle. However, we're running out of other tiles at Temminck, so yes, it does need those windmills in the near future or it's going to have to rob more tiles from it's neighbors, neighbors that similarly have need of more tiles. Regarding the prefarmed tile, it's been a finished farm for some time. We've already USED that tile

On Kilrah: I advise working almost anything *but* an Engineer while it's waiting for tile improvements. Assuming it's still working forests, a whip would be much (much!) better, preferably just before growing onto the engineer. Otherwise, almost anything - an unimproved grassland even - would be better than trading two food for two hammers. We'll never get a Great Anything out of Kilrah.

I dono that we'll never get a great anything from here, we might get an engineer if we build the ironworks here... In any case, the specialist was a suggestion for ONE turn while we got a tile ready. The city will be making +8 food at size 13 before it grows to size 14. When it hits size 14, it's non engineer choices are as follows: Unimproved river grass, unimproved river plains, unimproved dry plains hill X2. All other tiles will already be in use! There is one thing that Temminck DOES need, which is a grocer, but we NEED some military. I've agreed with going light before now, but now we're 10th in power, not 6th or 7th. I feel like we need to look like we're not an easy kill.

EDIT: In case it isn't obvious, Morgan: Please note that just because I said something more recently than Maniac does NOT mean that I'm necessarily right. Where he and I disagree, please use your own judgment. And of course, feel free to post a suggestion that's better than EITHER of ours!

I agree with this 100%


Also, note to Morgan. We're running Espionage on Portugal (4) and Ottos (2). We need 2 turns like this, then we'll be at 43 on Portu and can swap to 6 on ottos.

And, for Ref:



PS: The game is currently paused because Sunrise's wife is in labor.

[T-hawk]

PS: The game is currently paused because Sunrise's wife is in labor.

That was two days ago by now, so I hope it's not still true!

[Morgan]

Comprehensive plans, very good.

I'd say HV is unsuited to IW because of the floods and the unhealthiness caused.

I shall re-read all plans and comment shortly.

Good luck to Sunrise and wife.

[RefSteel]

Incorrect. I quit running one because you suggested I quit.

Ah. I misunderstood something you said earlier. I'll hopefully recreate the spreadsheet for the city tonight. Also: I saw an e-mail in which apparently we said we'd be getting a Great Merchant shortly. [EDIT: I'm clearly insane. Obviously, you were talking about the Economics GM. On the Great Person out of HV, if any, see below/next-page.]

I'm more worried about the settlers, but yes, the great person is ideal.

Sounds good.

Thats doable. you have 2 workers free immediately. The FP farm can be done T135 and the grass one T137.

Wow. I was assuming they'd be roading to Green Dot for part of that time.

Whilst I agree on the awesomeness of a university here, we're now a distant 10th in power.

My point is that Temminck is not the place from which to fix this.

What if we did 2 turns on a pike, (22 hammers) then double whipped it, overflow into the university?

This city can't give up two pop every three turns, least of all while Feng Shui is using those shared farms. Temminck would have to work them PRIOR to whipping, so as to grow and not give up its good tiles. Also, it would need to have an unreal happy cap (which it might; I'm not sure) to whip Temple - Pike - University - Grocer in short order. Note that we don't have to build any muskets ever if we don't want to; Pikes can be built until rifles.

One other note: I think it would actually be better to skip the road - have Temminck's self-built worker chop the jungle while the one from Ornata works (e.g. chopping jungle or roading a hill) nearby, then have them get together to cottage the tile once the jungle is cleared. I agree we'll want windmills there - even soon, with rep parts due - but not before grassland cottages.

Regarding the prefarmed tile, it's been a finished farm for some time. We've already USED that tile

Heh. This is why it's dangerous for me to try to work from 6-turn-old images.

I dono that we'll never get a great anything from here, we might get an engineer if we build the ironworks here...

I don't expect to get an engineer here with or without Ironworks. The GP point target number will recede faster than it can generate the points. Even if this were not true, 3 GE points that might be cashed in sometime, maybe, after ironworks, don't justify working the equivalent of an unimproved dry plains hill.

In any case, the specialist was a suggestion for ONE turn while we got a tile ready. The city will be making +8 food at size 13 before it grows to size 14. When it hits size 14, it's non engineer choices are as follows: Unimproved river grass, unimproved river plains, unimproved dry plains hill X2.

The unimproved river grassland is better than an engineer. Whipping something (even for one pop, given our happy situation) is also better than the engineer, even if it means fewer turns working those grass forests of its. Note that in spite of the mass of words I've thrown at this, this is a MINOR point - just one guy for one turn.

Comprehensive plans, very good.

I'd say HV is unsuited to IW because of the floods and the unhealthiness caused.

I think we're all in agreement there; I believe Maniac was suggesting Kilrah (the HE rice/pigs city in the northeast) as the eventual site of IW.

[RefSteel]

I'm trying to make sense of that picture of HV. If anyone knows or can find out:

- How many hammers are "in" the Grocer (post-whip)

- How many GP points it has generated

- How many turns of whip anger are left on the clock as of T131

...that would help. [EDIT: I *think* I understand where it is now, but confirmation would still be nice.]

[RefSteel]

Okay, so I was looking at HV and Smithsonian. Believe it or not, it will take a not-insignificant effort for HV to get its first Great Person before Smith! Smithsonian is looking at its first GP (60% scientist, 30% engineer, 10% artist due to NE pollution) on T160. We can get one sooner at HV (~80% merchant, ~20% engineer) while still getting those settlers out quickly, but the margin would only be a few turns. So ... do we still want to do so?