The isolated start was sold as the best start; I wouldn't have placed any other as isolated. Neighbor balance with five players isn't easy, but a single pangea or wrapping continent might have been fairer, but unbalanced was asked for here.
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[PB73] Map-making thread
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To be entirely honest there are too many unknown variables to be able to run a snake pick how they did, without falling into game losing traps.
Look at it this way: If the entire map had been disclosed to them prior to the snake pick, how would that have changed things? For example: Pick 1 has to decide if they can choose Artillery and then still use the worst start, but if they give up Arty and do not pick a start, then they run the risk of having the defend against Arty and still having the worst start. How could pick one do anything other than choose the best start or Artillery? And if pick 1 chooses the best start, what does pick 2 do? And then think what that would have looked like on a pangaea where everyone is a neighbour. And then what would happen if they didn't have total map knowledge?
I think a military tech was always a bit of a trap. But in a situation where some of the players are off on their own, a military tech can't possibly win. Even if Yuris and one of the others won their continent, they would be way behind Oxy, and never be able to land their armies. Sure they'd have a continent to expand into, but they wouldn't have time to build an economy across it that can get them to galleons.
If they're on one continent, then a Yuris or a Luddite can conquer and burn their way across, and win by conquest. If there are two, then you can win your continent and hope the others are too evenly split that you can eventually recover your way to a winning economy.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
(August 19th, 2023, 05:40)Qgqqqqq Wrote: I think a military tech was always a bit of a trap. But in a situation where some of the players are off on their own, a military tech can't possibly win. Even if Yuris and one of the others won their continent, they would be way behind Oxy, and never be able to land their armies. Sure they'd have a continent to expand into, but they wouldn't have time to build an economy across it that can get them to galleons. I don't think any of this is true for Artillery, nor that this game could be considered representative of choosing artillery across various map layouts in a five player game. Luddite misplayed his game as much as scooter played his well.
Say Luddite starts next to Scooter and goes AT first and kills him. The normal rules for a rush apply - he'd be behind anyone on expanding, even if he has more room to expand into and can never be successfully invaded. He even has higher maintenance because of the long distance to Scooters capital. Which means he'd inevitably fall significantly behind economically and in expansion to GLH Oxy.
Sure he doesn't need much of an economy for his land military, but he can never get them to anyone else because he'll be behind in navy.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
The whole premise of what you are arguing is wrong, partly because the terms as they are used (rush, choke, and tech inasmuch as it means the ability to reach thee next level of military units with the ability to build them) have vastly different meanings in these settings.
The "normal rules" as you describe, do not apply. Our understanding of the results of any actions taken, based off of experiences, are void. The only points we can state with certainty are the acts specifically taken in the snake pick (along with the subsequent effects within the snake pick) and the micro in the first 50 turns in relation to expected points of contact/how to defend against a potential military unit becoming visible in relation to the potential outcomes of the snake pick. Please understand I am not saying that the player who picks Artillery should win, nor should the person with CS. I am disputing the assertion that a military tech cannot win.
I'm not saying they can't win. I'm saying that naval being a relevant element means the promise of military (the ability to ignore military tech and still have an advantage) is largely gone overseas.
I'm not asking for certainty, but I'd love to hear a narrative of how you, say, having killed Cairo with AT, could then win the game against an Oxy (ignoring for the moment Scooter/Yuris).
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
You go on to kill Oxy with arty and AT too. Enough navy to land them would be a challenge, particularly since you wouldn't have spared exploring boats for circumnav while rushing. If you can get them there, they still beat anything that could be reached by a normal civ, and maybe even a Kremlin or Bureau civ.
What that wouldn't work for is musketeers or probably cataphracts, the other continents would find something (even elephants) to defend against those by the time they finish their first continent. Arty/AT is the only military tech with a foreseeable chance of going all the way after one rush.
Well that's the issue - a competent player should be able to keep ahead of you on galleys and triremes (even getting to MC will take a while) as they know that a landing is so hard to dislodge. And then they should be able to beat you to galleons, at which point you can never trade remotely efficiently so you have to catch them on tech.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
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