(April 20th, 2024, 06:53)Krill Wrote: Thanks Civac. Typing up a mental sim for further discussion. It was run prior to checking tech costs but so long as the costs are as above, then the tech fits.
wb>worker>granary>warrior (due to happiness issues). Assumes Japan and Charismatic. No EXP, this is for De Gaulle/Boudicca, only minor changes around growth to size 6 is needed for Stalin.
T0: research Agri, (0/55, +10bpt, build work boat, work plains hill. scout heads west to look around corn, the east will be picked up by border pops.
eot5: Fin Agri 60/55 OF 5b, Fin wb 30/30, foodbox 0/22.
T6: Research Pottery base 17bpt (adjusted 23/110), improve cra, work crab, start worker (0/60, +6fhpt).
T7: Research Pottery base 12bpt (adjusted 16bpt, 39/110)
eot12: Fin Pottery 119/110, OF 6b.
T13: Research Mining base 18bpt (adjusted 18/68)
T14: Research Mining base 12bpt (30/68)
eot15: Fin worker (60/60)
T16 : Start Granary (+2hpt 0/60). Worker moves 4-road/cancel.
T17: Worker moves 7 farm
eot18: Fin Mining 78/68, OF 10b.
T19: Research BW base 22bpt (adjusted 26/165)
T20: Research BW base 12bpt (adjusted 14bpt, 40/165)
T21: worker farm-fin, work corn, foodbox 20/22 +6fpt, Research BW 10bpt (adjusted 52/165), eot growth@2, granary 12/60
T22: worker moves 32 to grass hill. Work corn, clam, foodbox 4/24 +8fpt, Research base 12bpt (adjusted 14bpt 66/165)
T23: worker mine
eot24 growth@3 foodbox 28/24, granary 18/60
T25: Work corn/crab/lake, foodbox 12/26, granary 20/60, (Research BW base 14bpt adjusted 16bpt 110/165)
T26: worker mine-fin, work corn/crab/mine
T27: Worker move 8 road/fin, growth@4 food box 26/26, granary 30/60.
T28: Worker move 7 road/fin, work corn/crab/mine/plains forest hill foodbox 0/28, +5fpt, +8hpt, granary 30/60
T29: Worker moves 96 (to grass hill forest) eot Fin BW 166/165, beaker lost to rounding.
T30: Worker mine.Research anything (Sailing 0/138, due around T40)
eot31: granary fin 62/60, food box 20/28
T32: Turn on avoid growth, work corn/crab/mine/sheep, build warrior 7/15
T33: Foodbox 28/28, turn off avoid growth, eot growth@5 warrior 12/15
T34: Foodbox 22/30, work corn/crab/mine/sheep/clam +8fpt, eot warrior 17/15
T35: Revolt to slavery
T36: Build settler, worker mine-fin, work corn/crab/mine/mine/spice/crab 15+20=35/100
T37: Triple whip settler 137/100, work corn/crab/mine, food box 15/26. Worker does god knows what, probably starts roading onwards.
T38: Build work boat 42/30, foodbox 22/26.
You know what, I would take this sort of start with Boudicca of Japan versus someone taking Washington of Sumeria. That's both seafoods and the corn hooked by T40, good commerce (Fishing is cost 50, Agri is cost 40, so that's a plus for Japan). Use whip overflow from the next settler plus one chop for a lighthouse around T45 for the settler? And I have all the military advantages? Just stack that whip anger as high as it will go then use the capital to push out the first GP whilst the unhappy wears off. This can probably get AH before Sailing as well to grab the sheep, which opens up splitting off the corn earlier and easily maintaining two turn growth.
I suppose it comes down to this point: I don't care about the time to the second city any where near as much as others do, and chopping to speed expansion has to take into account other scenarios which keep the stored hammers available.
Quote:I'd rather have the 9t faster 2nd city than the 3t faster 3rd city in most cases. Both sims are lacking in worker turns for the second city (and 3rd!) but simply assigning the worker to chop stuff in the capital Sumeria is up a chop plus one worker turn vs Japan's road due to earlier bronze and earlier worker. Japan is a few turns ahead on getting to Animal Husbandry at t40 but I didn't settle the second city in either run through so the actual beaker difference is around 40 beakers not including the net beaker value of the 9t earlier 2nd city.
The earlier second city won't have a trade route, so there will not be a beaker bonus there. Essentially the settler rush is reliant on their being another good grain tile to improve, with it there is a path to it working, but without it it will hit a brick wall. Earlier chopping doesn't create more hammesrs either, the cops still exist in both starts. It isn't up a chop, Sumeria is down a forest.
I was assuming Expansive due to you wanting an early granary.
A city 4 of the Corn can be settled t28 and be trade connected. Even if nothing in fog worth working it can grow to size 2 eot35 working bare Sheep and whip a worker t 40.
t40: 2 cities, 2 workers, settler and galley due by eot 46 with an exploring workboat.
Worker-->WB to size 2, swap to settler (completed eot27 with a chop)-->finish WB-->WB (second chop). Both crabs hooked on t30. Revolt to slavery with settler in transit. 2nd worker whipped t37. Sheep pasture done t38.
Pottery due t46-47. 3rd city overseas settled t49. Tile sharing and usage could use a bit of a tweak, I'm 1 hammer short of finishing the exploring WB eot 42.
Should have 2 granaries and 3 cities to go with the two workers by t50 with either a third improved seafood or an exploring workboat plus a galley and a brace of MP warriors, copper and horses revealed.
Yeah, it looks to me like Japan is a sound first pick. The start can get played any number of ways. Yuri will get second leader pick and no one can stop him getting one for Boudicca or De Gaulle.
Thoth, I'd point out the biggest problem with this start is the decision to go wb or worker first is going to be based off what the scout can see by moving to the corn and the tiles visible once the city is founded. Choosing a second city site built around sharing food and not necessarily picking up new resources doesn't feel like a smart play, not when the tiles can be used by the capital just as quickly and there is no impact on when the slavery unhappiness clocks start. But it is at least a minimum expectation, isn't it.
Edit: Case in point: De Gaulle or Japan with plan to Oracle MC may prefer wb first as getting to priest hood is likely to be commerce limited, but Boudicca of Japan may just want to max out food hammers at first. I would assert that it's not an obvious start to play out, which suggests a well balanced start area.
The start 3 from the left (Yuris'?) seems short of land compared to the others - particularly the 4th from left (Superdeath?), which has a second larger island adjacent to the first. Could merging the two stringy islands to the NE of the 3rd start be enough of a tweak?
I initially thought they needed a coastal connection to the 2nd start to the NW, but on reflection that is actually important backlines (Pre-Astro) for their more equatorial start.
pb 77 boudi of japan t 40.zip (Size: 48 KB / Downloads: 0)
