[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 70:

Vanilla Ice fortified to heal up this turn, Boggy B reclaimed his hill, Settler moved onto the scene.



That bear looks like it wants to cause trouble again.

When Legends pops, if the bear ends up surrounded by culture tiles, it just won’t move.
So if it’s standing on, say, the gl river silks when Purple/Cyan is founded I’ll have to delay.
Let’s hope it moves SW, away from where Bob is roading.

Cull founded his second city, so now everyone has two cities.


Demographics:

Score:
Cull + 5 for his pop increase.
Selrahc + 11 for a tech.

Selrahc:
Last turn that he researched a tech: T49 -> Assigned Philo
Next turn he researched a tech: T56
Therefore gap = 7 turns
GNP during period: 16-17 ie research 12-13.
9 turns x 12.5 = 87b

Similar to Sareln, there’s only one 85b tech that Selrahc doesn’t have, so it has to be Agri.
He’s also got an unknown tech from a hut, which I’d hoped might be Agri or Crafting.
Obviously it’s not Agri, but could still be: Fishing, Hunting, [strike]Cartography,[/strike] Crafting, or Education.
Selrahc has: Agri, Exploration, Anc Chants, Mysticism, Philo + 1 unknown.

Selrahc:
Last turn that he researched a tech: T56 -> Assigned Agri
Next turn he researched a tech: T70
Therefore gap = 14 turns
GNP during period: 18-22 ie research 14-18.
14 turns x 16 = 224b

Mining/Mysticism/Cartography are the closest fits at 215b.
Myst is out because he’s already teched it, Cartography… well lol.
There’s no way of me telling if Selrahc has researched Cartography, the OB options are obviously already there.
The other option is Mining, which requires the free hut pop earlier to have been Crafting.

I’d say Mining is the most likely, given his heavily forested start (allows him to chop it), but the requirement of the hut pop makes me a touch cautious assigning it for definite.
I think it’s highly unlikely that Selrahc is trying to beat me to the Giants, but it looks like I may have to come up with a way of checking.

Okay, I can do that.

Diplo:

Dearest Queen Sareln,

I’m afraid his Lordship was still lying in the nearest gutter, drooling, when I last left him.
My attempts at getting an intelligible sentence out of him have proved all for naught, and so a possible map trade is still sadly left hanging in the wind.

However my assistant, Alfredo, suggested that you may now be able to trade maps with the fearsome Illian King, given that he has Cartography also?
If he is wrong, please let me know and I shall dock him six weeks of gruel.

Regards,
M. Keown, Hand to the Kuriotates.

Can’t ask Cull, because I don’t want him asking me for a map trade yet, and I can live with looking like a fool to Sareln if I'm wrong.

[pocketbeetle]

Moar Strategery:

Several things (apart from the Priests) coming up over the next few turns.

• Tech path
  Mining just completed.
  
• Religions
  
• Adaptive Trait
  Switch at T71, next turn.
  
• Purple vs Cyan
  

Tech Path:

Mining came in this turn, which completed the previously stated aims.
So far I’ve gone:
(Agri)->Calendar->Anc Chants->Mysticism->Exploration->Cartography->Crafting->Mining.

Cartography for the Giants, Mining for the production to build them.
Now I’m going to spam out another 2 (maybe 3) workers from Kwythellar (I’ll micro on T71 to get the first worker out in a total of 2 turns buildtime) and get those hills mined asap.

Techwise, if you go back to an old post, you can see that I’ve still got a few priority techs to reach.
I want Fishing for food, Message from the Deep to found OO in Caledor, Festivals for markets to help my economy, AH for more food and Education for cottages. Hunting keeps getting pushed down the list annoyingly.

So next tech route:
Fishing -> Message from the Deep -> Festivals -> AH -> Education.


Religions:

I’m interested in founding OO in Caledor, as well as another one or two.
I went and sandboxed yesterday evening, and estimate I can get Octopus Overlords (OO) within 12-13 turns (4 for Fishing, 8-9 for MftD).
Within that time, I managed to get Purple/Cyan up to size 3 (nearly 4) and had around 16 hammers invested in a granary. Not very impressive.
Therefore I am going to make it a settlement first, and upgrade later after OO is founded.

I believe OO is a lock for me if I beeline there now.
The only player who potentially has Fishing is Selrahc, and he can’t research religions.
Ordinarily, that would mean I could delay founding OO, but I can’t because of the obvious problems already explained at long long length.

I’ll use the Savant to found AV at some point, whether that’s in Caledor or Purple/Cyan, I’m not sure yet.
I’m not particularly interested in spreading or converting to Ashen Veil (AV), and it’s shrine is unusual in that it can be founded by a GPro or a GSci, granting +1 beakers per city rather than gold.
Specifically it gives:

• +1 beakers per city that has AV.
  
• +1 Entropy mana.
  
• Enables hiring of 2 priests, 1 scientist.
  
• +2 GPP/turn (scientist)
  
• Free Stigmata promotion to all units produced by city (+str bonus equal to half the Armageddon Counter).
  

That makes the shrine less attractive to Caledor, but I still wouldn’t mind building the shrine for the +1 Entropy mana it grants (Lvl 1 Rust, Lvl 3 Wither are decent spells).
The specialist slots and gpp/turn might be more useful in a GP farm, hence the possibility of founding it in Purple/Cyan.


Adaptive trait:

Should get to change next turn.
Creative is out, we already know I’m not going to need it.
I’m not interested in going a military trait such as Aggressive: I have little doubt Selrahc will be paying close attention to whatever I pick, and Agg or Raiders will just alarm him.
And no, alarming him is not a good move at this point.
Plan is to keep my head down and tech away for the moment. I’m hoping that the temporary security afforded by the Giants combined with Selrahc’s newly obtained Eastern cities keeps him busy and me safe.

That leaves Economic traits: Philo or Financial.
I’ve got one GSci out, and I’m around 70/200 for the next one in Kwythellar.
Staying Philo would also help get a SC quickly in Purple/Cyan, and I could probably get Writing for cheap libraries before the next switch.
Counterbalancing that, there’s Financial with cheap markets and the usual +1 commerce on tiles with 2 or more.

I don’t see the point of getting a second GSci out fast for Caledor if it doesn’t have the commerce to justify it (earliest estimate for GSci with Philosophical = T92).
Running a scientist specialist in Kwythellar also clashes with its production heavy schedule coming up.

So Financial it is.


Purple vs Cyan:

Still not decided, still leaning towards Cyan.
Done some tile gazing, all four of the fogged tiles in a square formation look flat, it’s just harder to tell with tiles adjacent to a peak.


Lurker Quiz Time (yay!):

Let’s see how much you’ve been paying attention, answers should be in the form of a letter and number, eg a1.

Question: What religion will I be founding next, and when?
Answer:

1. Ashen Veil
   
2. Runes of Kilmorph
   
3. Fellowship of Leaves
   
4. Octopus Overlords
   

1. Next turn!
   
2. In 6 turns.
   
3. In 12-13 turns.
   
4. In 18 turns.
   

Answers need to be made by this time tomorrow!
If you need a hint, then check the url for the strategy picture at the top of this post.

[Krill]

Can you found a religion in a settlement?

[pocketbeetle]

Can you found a religion in a settlement?

Not via teching no.
But you can force a religion to be founded in a settlement, if you have the first missionary of a religion.
Say for instance you got lucky and rolled it from a lair.

Interestingly, you can't build a shrine in a settlement though.

[Adlain]

d-3

[Krill]

So you could, feasibly, force a double holy city?

Hmmm. It'd help if I actually knew how to play FfH I'll put my guess in the no players thread, but I won;t find out for a month. I just hope I come back vindicated...

[Profane]

A long time ago you mentioned the possibility of competing with Cull for RoK.
Is your tech rate going to be good enough to get Way of the Earthmother in 6 turns? If yes, then:
b2 for RoK in Caledor.
Otherwise, i'd say a2, probably in Caledor - there's no guarantee your Settler can settle within 6 turns with that Bear lurking around.

[pocketbeetle]

So you could, feasibly, force a double holy city?

Absolutely, splash out and go triple if you want!
Unless you get a bit of luck however, it's just harder than normal.

Hmmm. It'd help if I actually knew how to play FfH I'll put my guess in the no players thread, but I won;t find out for a month. I just hope I come back vindicated...

Well, if you want me to pm you, just drop me a note.
You just have to promise to keep quiet and let others have a chance.

Is your tech rate going to be good enough to get Way of the Earthmother in 6 turns?

Hi Profane.

It's a bad habit, but I'm feeling lazy so I'm going to quote myself here.

Religion:

There are three tiers of religions, each coming at different stages of the game due to tech prerequisites:

1. Fellowship of Leaves, Runes of Kilmorph, Octopus Overlords
   
2. Order, Ashen Veil
   
3. Empyrean, Council of Esus
   

The first tier religions cost 450 beakers to tech, and have the prerequisite of Mysticism and one other tech (FoL - Hunting, RoK - Mining, OO - Fishing).

So the Way of the Earthmother tech would take approximately the same amount of time as Message from the Deep (8-9 turns), plus any other prerequisites.

[sunrise089]

I guess A-2.

And because I've played in the contest, I shall also indulge myself by saying I agree with Rowain that Ilios' comment was surprising...I certainly noticed that PB hadn't thought of the settlement->city thing and that the chat transcripts suggested Selrahc hadn't though of the large map size issue either. Even with the lower spoiler standards in the FFH game (which overall I agree with), I'm surprised something this helpful to a player got posted.

[pocketbeetle]

Number of right answers so far: 0


Had an interesting idea though, after typing that strategy post and convincing myself that AV doesn't necessarily have to be founded in Caledor.
I just sandboxed it a couple of times, and it does seem to work, I'm just trying to figure out the odds now.

I remember reading once, an excellent post over at CFC which went into the exact numbers and mechanics involved in deciding the Holy City.
eg capitals get a -50ish modifier etc.
If anyone conveniently has that thread bookmarked, or one like it, please share.