T234continued......
Ginger STILL hasn't played. I did ask him on discord if he needed an extension, but no answer. Both SD and I have been reloading / giving extensions unasked for. If he wasn't the literal next best shot of winning I would say skip his turn, but SIGH.
Speaking of SD
Do I believe it? Maybe. Mainly because SD is in like 4 games right now so he might just not care.
It will be curious if a dog pile commences. Ginger isn't far behind, so to me its him vs me and everyone else kind of sits back and hopes we drag each other back a la PB66. But people don't always see the game the same way and my GA is making me look pretty.
So what to tech. I'm up stupid early and rambling so feel free to stop reading.
Question is which victory condition do I go for?
- Conquer SD for concession - I already promised I wouldn't do this, but lets assume I didn't or he betrays me again. This would initiate a dog pile. I would obviously wait for industrialization, so I could probably do it. Pros: pay SD for betraying me earlier. Cons: Need large fleet in order to do on any fast timeline and unsure if I can out produce Ginger to do activities in non home waters. Real life time. My wife isn't working 3rd shift atm, which means I don't have PB66 levels of time for a major offensive war. This is why I did promise SD I wouldn't. I don't like this option for both in game and out of game reasons.
- A limited war vs Nauf to kick off a dog pile and try to just destroy them defensively; again after industrialism. It wouldn't be the first game won by just sitting back and letting people suicide into you. See PB65. Pros: I probably haven't shown, but there are 5 mining inc resources in very isolated Nauf cities near my border. ITS POSSIBLE Ijub wouldn't jump in if I just take 2 cities. He is a wild card in this and the first option. I don't know what happened between him and Ginger, but Ijub giving a city back, followed by being attacked, and then followed by Ginger pillaging Ijub's conquered territory doesn't point to great relations. Personally just the pillaging of my territory when I know you need me would be infuriating. Cons: I have nothing against nauf this game. I mean sometimes in civ4 you just go to war because its the winning move, but still. There isn't a guarantee he would even join in a dog pile. Although he has in past games to a great degree; even marching through former enemy territory to attack. Less real world time, but still a lot, but hopefully for short time period and game ends sooner so net more time.
- Tech to nukes and Cristo. I have Kremlin and access to police state. Cristo Kremlin MIGHT be optional even. Its possible police state plus mining inc is good enough for a few ICBMs. Tactical nukes aren't great on this map. In PB66 there were close quarters naval fighting with cities easily accessible via commando. Here you pretty much have to win the naval war over longer distances first before you could attempt via sub, so ICBMs are much more important than PB66. Pros: nukes Cons: I'm not sure I can actually out tech Ginger. His land is SOOO much better than mine. That being said if I think I can out build him in nukes.
- Culture win push - I've been setting it up, so its not inconceivable. Right now I'm at 75 turns at 90% culture, but I can probably drop that quite a bit. Have I mentioned I picked up a Confusian city in my Gav/Scooter conquest? Observant people will have noted that it was a very early city for mining inc. So with my 1 Hindu city from an early spread I can put in two more sets of religions in my worst city and 1 in my 2nd probably. Pros: its been forever since a game went to an actual win con. Cons: Ginger would get nukes and I wouldn't. There are 3 techs for nukes I wouldn't need for this and 1 tech for culture I may not need for nukes (radio, which for nukes is on way to mass media, but again not sure I need Cristo, but would want for culture). While each turn probably isn't long its still almost certainty AT LEAST 50 turns away unless I get a lucky artist after my next GA (assuming I don't keep rolling prophets). That is the one thing I 'm missing for my push is a dedicated artist factory.
Now teching combustion > Biology > electricity > Industrialization are the mandatory techs for all of the above. A key question is if after biology I should fit in Democracy for Statue of Liberty. I think so. Between mining inc and being industrious its not horrifically expensive. But delaying industrialization may be a mistake, so maybe after? But then that shortens payback period.
Now the nice thing about going culture is I can always switch to the nuke path. While Cristo is maybe optional for nukes its not like its bad for the push and would also force Ginger to build manhattan project instead of me wasting hammers on.
If I'm going the attack Nauf route I 100% don't want to delay industrialization for democracy. Want the tech lead when I kick that off and not sure I'm keeping tech lead on Ginger for long.
Honestly it might depend on what Ginger does soon. If Ginger goes for democracy after biology I'm just B-lining tanks and taking over those 2 nauf cities. If he doesn't I'm tempted to just try to build my lead and go for statue, which is good for longer game in going for nukes or culture. I'll note electricity is a better economic tech than normal thanks to all my windmills and I'm building quite a few water mills so its possible I wait until after that for the decision on statue. I don't think I have a firm favorite among my options so just leaving open options seems ok.
Ginger STILL hasn't played. I did ask him on discord if he needed an extension, but no answer. Both SD and I have been reloading / giving extensions unasked for. If he wasn't the literal next best shot of winning I would say skip his turn, but SIGH.
Speaking of SD
Do I believe it? Maybe. Mainly because SD is in like 4 games right now so he might just not care.
It will be curious if a dog pile commences. Ginger isn't far behind, so to me its him vs me and everyone else kind of sits back and hopes we drag each other back a la PB66. But people don't always see the game the same way and my GA is making me look pretty.
So what to tech. I'm up stupid early and rambling so feel free to stop reading.
Question is which victory condition do I go for?
- Conquer SD for concession - I already promised I wouldn't do this, but lets assume I didn't or he betrays me again. This would initiate a dog pile. I would obviously wait for industrialization, so I could probably do it. Pros: pay SD for betraying me earlier. Cons: Need large fleet in order to do on any fast timeline and unsure if I can out produce Ginger to do activities in non home waters. Real life time. My wife isn't working 3rd shift atm, which means I don't have PB66 levels of time for a major offensive war. This is why I did promise SD I wouldn't. I don't like this option for both in game and out of game reasons.
- A limited war vs Nauf to kick off a dog pile and try to just destroy them defensively; again after industrialism. It wouldn't be the first game won by just sitting back and letting people suicide into you. See PB65. Pros: I probably haven't shown, but there are 5 mining inc resources in very isolated Nauf cities near my border. ITS POSSIBLE Ijub wouldn't jump in if I just take 2 cities. He is a wild card in this and the first option. I don't know what happened between him and Ginger, but Ijub giving a city back, followed by being attacked, and then followed by Ginger pillaging Ijub's conquered territory doesn't point to great relations. Personally just the pillaging of my territory when I know you need me would be infuriating. Cons: I have nothing against nauf this game. I mean sometimes in civ4 you just go to war because its the winning move, but still. There isn't a guarantee he would even join in a dog pile. Although he has in past games to a great degree; even marching through former enemy territory to attack. Less real world time, but still a lot, but hopefully for short time period and game ends sooner so net more time.
- Tech to nukes and Cristo. I have Kremlin and access to police state. Cristo Kremlin MIGHT be optional even. Its possible police state plus mining inc is good enough for a few ICBMs. Tactical nukes aren't great on this map. In PB66 there were close quarters naval fighting with cities easily accessible via commando. Here you pretty much have to win the naval war over longer distances first before you could attempt via sub, so ICBMs are much more important than PB66. Pros: nukes Cons: I'm not sure I can actually out tech Ginger. His land is SOOO much better than mine. That being said if I think I can out build him in nukes.
- Culture win push - I've been setting it up, so its not inconceivable. Right now I'm at 75 turns at 90% culture, but I can probably drop that quite a bit. Have I mentioned I picked up a Confusian city in my Gav/Scooter conquest? Observant people will have noted that it was a very early city for mining inc. So with my 1 Hindu city from an early spread I can put in two more sets of religions in my worst city and 1 in my 2nd probably. Pros: its been forever since a game went to an actual win con. Cons: Ginger would get nukes and I wouldn't. There are 3 techs for nukes I wouldn't need for this and 1 tech for culture I may not need for nukes (radio, which for nukes is on way to mass media, but again not sure I need Cristo, but would want for culture). While each turn probably isn't long its still almost certainty AT LEAST 50 turns away unless I get a lucky artist after my next GA (assuming I don't keep rolling prophets). That is the one thing I 'm missing for my push is a dedicated artist factory.
Now teching combustion > Biology > electricity > Industrialization are the mandatory techs for all of the above. A key question is if after biology I should fit in Democracy for Statue of Liberty. I think so. Between mining inc and being industrious its not horrifically expensive. But delaying industrialization may be a mistake, so maybe after? But then that shortens payback period.
Now the nice thing about going culture is I can always switch to the nuke path. While Cristo is maybe optional for nukes its not like its bad for the push and would also force Ginger to build manhattan project instead of me wasting hammers on.
If I'm going the attack Nauf route I 100% don't want to delay industrialization for democracy. Want the tech lead when I kick that off and not sure I'm keeping tech lead on Ginger for long.
Honestly it might depend on what Ginger does soon. If Ginger goes for democracy after biology I'm just B-lining tanks and taking over those 2 nauf cities. If he doesn't I'm tempted to just try to build my lead and go for statue, which is good for longer game in going for nukes or culture. I'll note electricity is a better economic tech than normal thanks to all my windmills and I'm building quite a few water mills so its possible I wait until after that for the decision on statue. I don't think I have a firm favorite among my options so just leaving open options seems ok.