[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[pocketbeetle]

that had me in stiches - Vezz is ether due a promotion or Exacution - your choice

Definitely a promotion!

And yes, I'd been saving that picture for a while.

[Krill]

Wow.

[pocketbeetle]

Hippus Diplo:

Before meeting Iskender, chat has been friendly and helpful, with only the occasional leak, such as when he mentioned he was worried about me going Hyborem, or the Azer here:

Thanks for this research. I knew there's something wrong with haste but wasn't sure about the details.

I agree that it's not really a big issue as far as balance is concerned (this is FFH after all), but maybe the players should be warned that this trick is possible, so they can plan their unit movements accordingly.

BTW. Nice luck getting that Savant I've just popped an Azer with a Tiger sidekick. Fortunately it happened MUCH closer to Bob's borders than to mine.

Iskender

Hey Iskender,

Yeah, I think I'll probably go post the haste stuff in the tech thread at some point.

Regarding the Savant, I wanted to tell you, but couldn't, as we (still!) don't have contact ingame.
Really you shouldn't tell me about that Azer either, but I'll pretend I didn't see it.

Pb

However he’s definitely a smart cookie: if you remember I’ve been having trouble following his number of cities vs population, relying on Selrahc mostly.

So at one point, I told Iskender to “hurry up and get contact so I could keep track of his cities”, literally that’s all I said.
But from that he instantly figured out what I meant and how.

(5:38:19 PM) Iskender: btw. thanks for helping me figure out how to check opponent's number of cities
(5:38:44 PM) Iskender: it never occured to me that you could click on the leaders name
(5:38:50 PM) Iskender: i mean i know what it does
(5:39:17 PM) Iskender: but i'm used to real time MP where the opponent has to click back to pop the diplo screen
(5:39:35 PM) pocketbeetle: awww crap. I gotta stop giving my opponents hints!
(5:39:44 PM) Iskender: so i never bothered to click it in pbem and tried to figure out # of cities via demos
(5:40:23 PM) pocketbeetle: no worries Iskender

So anyway, demographics-wise the Hippus fortunes are definitely on the up.
Their GNP has now overtaken Selrahc’s to take third place, and he’s making good use of his EXP trait, which should in turn drag the Crop Yield and Mfg Goods up eventually.

I stated from the outset that I wanted good relations with the Hippus, little has changed that view. I consider the increased threat (imo) of Iskender being in charge of the Hippus rather than Archduke, being negated by the fact that’s he’s having to play catch-up. Doesn’t mean he can’t end up a major player though.

I wanted my initial greeting to make an impression compared to (if the players themselves are to be believed) what have been some rather lacklustre diplomatic approaches to Iskender up until now.
I think it went down okay, he has a sense of humour. =)

(5:13:31 PM) Iskender: the Hippus welcome the brave sailor!
(5:13:41 PM) pocketbeetle: Hi Iskender
(5:14:00 PM) pocketbeetle: Sorry about my Ratmen, they get a bit rude after too much wine
(5:14:29 PM) Iskender: i'm just reading that. had a busy day
(5:14:49 PM) pocketbeetle: No worries, it's about time we got contact though!
(5:15:07 PM) pocketbeetle: Things I've been wanting to tell you (but couldn't) :
(5:15:23 PM) Iskender: i'm all ears
(5:15:32 PM) pocketbeetle: Umm, you were right about the Savant. While I was away a turnplayer got lucky with a lair
(5:15:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Definitely nowhere near Hyborem!
(5:15:51 PM) Iskender: phew
(5:15:55 PM) pocketbeetle: And as for my score - a lot of it is Cultural
(5:16:21 PM) pocketbeetle: I used Legends on founding my third city, that gave me something crazy like 150 points a couple of turns ago
(5:16:28 PM) Iskender: yes, i figured that one out, it's 20 turn after Legends was cast
(5:16:33 PM) pocketbeetle: exactly
(5:16:53 PM) Iskender: quite scary at the first sight
(5:17:05 PM) pocketbeetle: Other than that, I'm just toddling along, frantically trying to remain on Selrahc's good side while he stomps over everyone with his Priests
(5:17:18 PM) pocketbeetle: And busy worrying about the Vampires to your East
(5:17:34 PM) pocketbeetle: You know Bob is in Agristocracy already?

Guess who is watching the turnlog!

(5:17:39 PM) Iskender: i was really surprised seeing you completing the Pact
(5:17:45 PM) pocketbeetle: Defense
(5:17:48 PM) Iskender: he is since turn 84
(5:18:02 PM) pocketbeetle: Needed some military units, seemed like the best option
(5:18:05 PM) Iskender: very good
(5:18:24 PM) Iskender: i was afraid selrahc could build the giants and join them with priests
(5:19:04 PM) pocketbeetle: That would have been bad
(5:19:12 PM) pocketbeetle: could remove cultural defense then
(5:19:13 PM) Iskender: i believe bob's working on getting academy right now
(5:19:22 PM) Iskender: firmly on the way to feudalism
(5:19:44 PM) pocketbeetle: I saw he researched a tech the other turn. Think it's either Writing or BW
(5:19:53 PM) Iskender: there's been some bad blood between us, mainly due to the mentioned azer
(5:19:59 PM) pocketbeetle: Why would he want Feudalism? Royal Guards?
(5:20:07 PM) Iskender: vampires!
(5:20:12 PM) pocketbeetle: oh crap
(5:20:13 PM) pocketbeetle: forgot
(5:20:34 PM) Iskender: do you track approval rate? someone, i believe him, was at 44%-45% for several turns
(5:20:37 PM) pocketbeetle: Being dumb. Thought he'd go for Fanaticism to get Losha Valas. But yes you're right

Honestly had forgotten.
Raises Bob’s threat even more.

(5:21:03 PM) pocketbeetle: Not sure, but I think that was Cull. He was having a hard time with Selrahc
(5:21:42 PM) pocketbeetle: Either way though, I'm glad you're at least not on Bob's side.
I'm worried about him.
(5:21:59 PM) pocketbeetle: Dist maintenance is high on this map, Aristocracy -40% maintenance plus courthouses (his Gov mansions), not good.
(5:22:18 PM) Iskender: and they give a hidden production bonus
(5:22:25 PM) pocketbeetle: exactly yup
(5:22:32 PM) Iskender: it's awful
(5:22:40 PM) pocketbeetle: lol
(5:22:55 PM) Iskender: luckily, no elder councils. he'd have had academy by now
(5:23:02 PM) pocketbeetle: Yup
(5:23:15 PM) pocketbeetle: Saw you popped a GSci a couple of turns ago. You got one up?
(5:23:35 PM) Iskender: yes, notice the subsequent raise in gnp
(5:23:40 PM) pocketbeetle: Good. me too

Score!
Culture graph and GNP graph did suggest it, but weren’t conclusive.

(5:24:05 PM) Iskender: that was the first decision after taking over
(5:24:09 PM) Iskender: getting a gp
(5:24:17 PM) pocketbeetle: I wasn't sure if you'd maybe used it to bulb Knowledge of the Ether. I couldn't think why you would do that
(5:24:26 PM) pocketbeetle: Sucky sucky mana
(5:24:35 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah. Archduke had problems
(5:24:44 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm glad you've got the Hippus back on track
(5:25:09 PM) Iskender: i'm glad i wasn't rushed
(5:25:25 PM) pocketbeetle: Looks to me like you've got plenty of space. No big worry
(5:25:58 PM) pocketbeetle: Plus people don't usually rush civs that have just changed ownership, they'd rather rush someone they're worried about. You, they wouldn't have known yet
(5:26:11 PM) Iskender: i think i'm going to have 'borders sparking tensions' issue with Bob soon
(5:26:20 PM) pocketbeetle: You were telling me about thi yes
(5:26:25 PM) pocketbeetle: So you popped an Azer?
(5:26:28 PM) pocketbeetle: From a lair?
(5:26:28 PM) Iskender: we seem to be expanding towards each other
(5:26:53 PM) Iskender: from a dungeon. amazingly, it's still there
(5:26:59 PM) Iskender: i mean the dungeon
(5:27:07 PM) Iskender: but the azer is there as well, i think
(5:27:15 PM) pocketbeetle: Was it close to Bob?
(5:27:25 PM) Iskender: 2 tiles away from the border
(5:27:39 PM) pocketbeetle: Any idea which city?
(5:28:03 PM) Iskender: it looks like the most recent one, only 1st cultural ring
(5:28:18 PM) pocketbeetle: Interesting. And the Azer hasn't tried to raze it?
(5:28:27 PM) pocketbeetle: Damn useless barbs!
(5:28:50 PM) pocketbeetle: Go pop it again! =D
(5:29:16 PM) Iskender: he ate my warrior so i lost vision over there. a scout 4-5 turns later saw the azer on a forested tile nearby
(5:29:35 PM) pocketbeetle: Unlucky. Assume it woul dhave promoted thought
(5:29:42 PM) Iskender: had combat 1
(5:29:55 PM) pocketbeetle: So relations are not going well then? I still don't have contact with Bob officially
(5:30:04 PM) Iskender: and then the scout was lost to the azer as well
(5:30:32 PM) Iskender: not well, which surprises me
(5:30:49 PM) pocketbeetle:
(5:31:02 PM) Iskender: not that i'm such a nice guy, but

So Iskender isn’t getting along with Bob.
Me likey.
But it never hurts to pile on the paranoia…

(5:31:04 PM) pocketbeetle: Well, if I tell you something, will you keep it to yourself?
(5:31:16 PM) Iskender: sure
(5:31:23 PM) pocketbeetle: Selrahc has a NAP with Bob
(5:31:37 PM) pocketbeetle: Cull is badly hurt
(5:31:48 PM) Iskender: not that i'm such a nice guy, but he should secure NAPs until feudalism and then unleash hell
(5:31:59 PM) pocketbeetle: Sareln is at worst a friend of Bob's
(5:32:07 PM) pocketbeetle: And I'm miles away from Bob

I set out there intending to make him slightly worried about Bob trying an attack on the Hippus, and only meant to say that Selrahc had a NAP.
But I found myself following the logical train of thought, through Cull, Sareln, then the Kurios, and you know what?

I think I managed to convince myself more than him.

It makes sense, with Selrahc and Bob having a NAP, and Bob getting along with Sareln, that leaves three other players.
Of those, Cull is neither a threat nor is he going to expand fast, and I’m a long way away (although I guess there’s the possibility of Selrahc allowing passage for a Calabim army).
Which just leaves FIN/EXP Iskender, who is slightly backwards but is catching up, and is the only person to share the South with Bob.
Definitely something to keep an eye on there.

(5:32:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah. How long do you think Bob is away from Feud?
(5:32:46 PM) Iskender: thanks
(5:33:24 PM) pocketbeetle: It's what, 1.5k beakers?
(5:33:45 PM) Iskender: i'm not sure how No tech trading works - if he has Trade, does it show in the tech trade screen
(5:34:11 PM) pocketbeetle: Good question. I don't know, but I believe techs would show up in the f4 diplo screen
(5:34:17 PM) Iskender: i believe if he researches trade, his techs are shown
(5:34:20 PM) pocketbeetle: So it would tell you who has what
(5:34:34 PM) Iskender: if that's the case he hasn't got Trade
(5:35:10 PM) pocketbeetle: You're right. I didn't notice Trade was a prereq. That's a good early warning system
(5:35:15 PM) Iskender: so at least 1.5 beakers to feudalism

Smart guy.
Not 100% sure it’ll work, but worth checking.

(5:36:17 PM) Iskender: if he beelines feudalism, i believe he would go for Writing first, then HR or sailing and then Trade
(5:36:42 PM) pocketbeetle: Sounds sensible to me.
(5:36:58 PM) Iskender: with Writing he'll start accumulating points for GP
(5:37:13 PM) Iskender: *GS i mean
(5:37:45 PM) Iskender: so once his GS is born i guess he'll be pretty close to Trade
(5:38:14 PM) Iskender: i still having decided which kinds of horsies i favour the most
(5:38:28 PM) pocketbeetle: Gotta be HA surely?
(5:38:31 PM) Iskender: do you plan on getting the Guild of the Nine?
(5:39:05 PM) pocketbeetle: I do have thoughts about it yes. Need some way of producing more units per turn than just 3/4
(5:39:53 PM) pocketbeetle: I didn't think about that, but I guess you really want it also for mounted mercenaries
(5:40:17 PM) Iskender: they are nice, but quite expensive
(5:40:47 PM) Iskender: 180gc for a strength 5 unit, that's about 3:1 gc to hammer ratio
(5:40:56 PM) Iskender: if we assume such unit would cost 60 hammers
(5:41:19 PM) Iskender: i guess HA would be better
(5:41:34 PM) pocketbeetle: That's about right. It's also why I've emphasised GNP a bit also. Can turn coin into hammers
(5:41:34 PM) Iskender: and i don't want to race to the Guild
(5:42:23 PM) pocketbeetle: Well, this is only the first time we've chatted. I have no intentions of beelining Currency straight away, and I'm sure we can work soemthing out later on
(5:42:33 PM) Iskender: then again you're limited by the # of cities. i can spam scouts and upgrade them for a sligtly better gc ratio
(5:42:50 PM) pocketbeetle: Exactly. Drafting melee units isn't so appealing
(5:43:08 PM) Iskender: i can assure you already officially etc. that i'm conceding building the Guild
(5:43:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Really? Okay, well I appreciate that. If I land it, I hope I can make it up to you in some other way

Thought the conversation was going slightly askew, and certainly didn’t want to start arguing over wonders on our first chat, so I was pleasantly surprised by him being nice there.

(5:43:57 PM) pocketbeetle: How are you for resoruces at the moment?
(5:44:13 PM) pocketbeetle: I have a silk spare, although we'll need Sailing I guess to trade
(5:44:16 PM) Iskender: terrible
(5:44:51 PM) Iskender: i'd be much obliged

Whoa hold on!
I’m grateful, but not grateful enough to give a free happy gift for the rest of the game.
One quick clarification that I meant in a trade later…

(5:45:28 PM) Iskender: you probably know that, but my capital is the size of your worst city
(5:45:35 PM) pocketbeetle: Well, remember I get tailor and jeweller extra happy resources. So when we can finally trade, I'll be happy to make you a good deal for the silks etc
(5:46:08 PM) Iskender: i'll have gems in few dozen turns

Oooh Gems! Gems are worth the same as Gold to me, +3 happy +10% commerce, so I’m 100% all ears.

(5:46:24 PM) Iskender: but then again jeweller requires smelting
(5:46:35 PM) pocketbeetle: oooh gems. I'm still definitely interested
(5:46:41 PM) Iskender: oh and beer. i have beer
(5:47:02 PM) pocketbeetle: hehe. You got Deruptus already? I need to build that myself, but it'll be a little while yet
(5:47:13 PM) pocketbeetle: Need wheat for it?
(5:47:19 PM) pocketbeetle: *the brewery
(5:47:28 PM) Iskender: no, just the building
(5:47:44 PM) Iskender: i had to build it to rise that bloody cap to 6
(5:48:00 PM) pocketbeetle: Blimey. Not fun.
(5:48:11 PM) Iskender: and i did. and i was in top5 for a turn!
(5:48:27 PM) Iskender: but then someone's another big city pushed me out
(5:48:39 PM) pocketbeetle: From what I've seen, I thought everyone had at least 3 food resources and a commerce/happy resource near their capital. did the Hippus get screwed?
(5:48:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Sorry
(5:49:24 PM) Iskender: i have 2 food and 2 happy
(5:49:35 PM) Iskender: but it depends how you define 'near' i guess

Erk, conversation getting awkward, let’s steer it away again!

(5:50:13 PM) Iskender: btw there's a giant tortoise 4 tiles south of your intrepid boat
(5:50:21 PM) Iskender: i'm not sure if those attack
(5:50:32 PM) Iskender: hippus were never into marine fauna
(5:50:37 PM) pocketbeetle: Really? I don't think they attack.
(5:50:38 PM) pocketbeetle: lol
(5:50:45 PM) Iskender: the only we were interested in was the seahorse
(5:51:01 PM) pocketbeetle: Oh dear. I sense we're going to get along just fine
(5:51:05 PM) Iskender: but the attempts to mount it were unfruitful
(5:51:11 PM) pocketbeetle: lolol
(5:51:24 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm not going to ask what type of 'mounting' you tried
(5:51:49 PM) Iskender: so what do you get if you cross a centaur with a horse?
(5:51:58 PM) pocketbeetle: Needless to say, the Kurios are bravely exploring. Just not getting far
(5:52:03 PM) pocketbeetle: Umm, some kind of ass?
(5:52:14 PM) Iskender: it puzzles me
(5:52:37 PM) Iskender: you should get 25% human 75% horse
(5:52:53 PM) pocketbeetle: Horse that's hung like a human?
(5:52:54 PM) Iskender: unless those are centaur's proportions already
(5:53:08 PM) Iskender: doh. genetic fail then
(5:53:13 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah
(5:53:20 PM) pocketbeetle: But anyway, like I said
(5:53:34 PM) pocketbeetle: It's good to finally get contact with you, and if I can help out, let me know
(5:53:52 PM) Iskender: sure. anything else you want to ask?
(5:54:01 PM) pocketbeetle: Hmmm.
(5:54:58 PM) pocketbeetle: No I'm happy at this time. You need to watch out, otherwise I'll start trying to pump you for every tech you've got etc
(5:55:07 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm nosy like that

Was mega tempted there, but getting a small piece of info wasn’t worth giving a bad first impression.

<<snip>> Random chatting
(5:58:17 PM) Iskender: all right
(5:58:41 PM) pocketbeetle: Keep on rolling, and most importantly, let's not die to a bog standard vampire rush
(5:58:54 PM) pocketbeetle: We have more class than that!
(5:59:07 PM) Iskender: yeah
(5:59:18 PM) Iskender: centaur lancer rush is much less cliche!
(5:59:34 PM) pocketbeetle: lolol. Only 4 allowed. I'm not even sure if it's worth getting them
(5:59:42 PM) pocketbeetle: anyway, catch you later
(5:59:51 PM) Iskender: see ya

I’m thinking the Kuriotates and Hippus are going to get along just fine for now.

A couple of days later:

(6:32:10 PM) Iskender: hello there my six-limbed friend
(6:32:15 PM) pocketbeetle: Hey
(6:32:38 PM) Iskender: was that your great sage that i missed being born last turn?
(6:32:47 PM) pocketbeetle: Yes indeed
(6:32:59 PM) Iskender: phew
(6:33:07 PM) pocketbeetle: definitely not Bob's ^^
(6:33:41 PM) pocketbeetle: Found that Giant Turtle btw. Thanks. Ran past him, he's only 1 move
(6:33:56 PM) Iskender: i see the pattern 1.pop the sage 2.convert to religion. 3 adopt RoK. 4. profit
(6:34:15 PM) Iskender: or
(6:34:15 PM) pocketbeetle: You got it. GSci is currently in transit
(6:34:24 PM) Iskender: 3. adopt AV 4. Hyborem
(6:34:50 PM) pocketbeetle: lol. No intentions any time soon. Got enough religion stuff, and I'm a goodie civ!
(6:35:29 PM) pocketbeetle: If you're interested in RoK btw, I could help with a Missionary or two. Although to use religions really gotta tech it yourself
(6:36:03 PM) Iskender: why not. but we're quite far away i guess

We’re not that far really, but I want to scout the fogged land between us before dispelling that illusion.

(6:36:20 PM) Iskender: btw, i had some doubts after yesterday's chat
(6:36:29 PM) pocketbeetle: What over?
(6:37:00 PM) Iskender: you said you had no contact with bob, but i saw it in F4 diplo. fortunately lurkers explained that
(6:37:18 PM) Iskender: some kind of bug
(6:37:19 PM) pocketbeetle: Ah yeah. We had contact frm T1, map error
(6:37:35 PM) pocketbeetle: Just means we can see wach others demos, but can't chat about the game
(6:37:53 PM) pocketbeetle: And because we started far away from each other, taking a while to get that contact
(6:38:31 PM) Iskender: do you have any clue where the priests are at the moment?
(6:38:32 PM) pocketbeetle: Not that it matters much anyway. He's going for Vampires at some point, we can't trade much, all we could do is gossip
(6:38:55 PM) pocketbeetle: Last I heard Priests were over near the Dwarves
(6:39:45 PM) Iskender: i'd hate to waste Warcry for a hasty improvised defense if they show up nearby
(6:39:55 PM) Iskender: i guess selrahc is not going to let them idle around
(6:40:06 PM) pocketbeetle: Well, you know where Cull is don't you?
(6:40:17 PM) Iskender: no
(6:40:39 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay, well just as Bob and I are on opposite ends of the continent, Cull is effectively on the opposite end to you. ie long way away.
(6:40:52 PM) pocketbeetle: You've got nothing to worry about for at leat I don't know...20 turns?
(6:40:56 PM) pocketbeetle: *least
(6:41:22 PM) Iskender: great
(6:41:24 PM) pocketbeetle: And that would be if he were to beeline straight to you. Which I don't think he has any reason to do
(6:41:29 PM) Iskender: thanks
(6:41:33 PM) pocketbeetle: no worries
(6:42:27 PM) Iskender: though first thing i'd do would be to give them mobility
(6:43:16 PM) pocketbeetle: I don't know. I know he prioritised Ice 2 very early for the Ice elementals

Was remembering Sareln’s email here.

Iskender’s right, Selrahc should get Mobility asap, But he’s also wrong, as I realised later.
Selrahc, according to last estimates, can’t get the Mobility promotion yet: it only becomes available after researching HBR.

(6:43:30 PM) pocketbeetle: But what he's promoted/ how much xp he's got since then, no idea
(6:43:53 PM) pocketbeetle: I'd rather not run into them however
(6:43:57 PM) Iskender: probably got a lot on cull
(6:44:06 PM) pocketbeetle: Was a big drop
(6:44:20 PM) Iskender: one down?
(6:44:32 PM) Iskender: i'm not sure how summons are calculated into the graph
(6:44:37 PM) pocketbeetle: No, Cull's power I mean
(6:45:00 PM) Iskender: selrahc's as well
(6:45:08 PM) pocketbeetle: they definitely count imo. that's why Selrahc's power has been fluctuating so much
(6:45:39 PM) Iskender: difficult to infer much because of that
(6:45:46 PM) pocketbeetle: Sometimes he'll be summoning 2 elementals, sometimes 3 etc. Yeah

Alright.
I’ve provided at least two decent pieces of info so far in this conversation: my GSci pop and reassuring Iskender that he’s not facing the Priests anytime soon.
Time for me to pump for some info:

(6:48:05 PM) pocketbeetle: While we're asking about GScis etc, one thing did confuse me a little while ago. You got 2 techs in a row not long ago. If you used the Gsci for an academy, how did you get the (first?).
Have to admit it confused me, I'm guessing some kind of free Great Prophet event which you used to bulb a tech?
(6:48:44 PM) Iskender: wow
(6:48:47 PM) pocketbeetle: (Warned you I'm nosy), feel free to say no comment
(6:48:51 PM) Iskender: amazing reading
(6:49:28 PM) Iskender: funny thing, i wrote in my thread it might 'confuse score-counters out there'
(6:49:41 PM) Iskender: no big deal. popped fishing from a hut
(6:49:46 PM) pocketbeetle: did you? Well yes, it did
(6:49:50 PM) pocketbeetle: ahhhh
(6:50:00 PM) pocketbeetle: really? a hut ? at T100 nearly? wow
(6:50:07 PM) pocketbeetle: I completely didn't think of that
(6:50:14 PM) Iskender: by bobs borders
(6:50:25 PM) pocketbeetle: Thought all the huts were long gone by now

Shit, really didn’t consider that. Stupid boy.
There’s a problem with this answer though, as I’ll deal with at the end.

(6:50:26 PM) Iskender: he and archduke didn't do much exploration
(6:51:04 PM) pocketbeetle: yeah that's true. I remember Archduke saying he lost his starting scout due to getting a 'crazed' event from a lair I think
(6:51:17 PM) Iskender: there was a giant nearby
(6:51:21 PM) Iskender: that probably saved it
(6:51:45 PM) pocketbeetle: Interesting, and very sweet! Although fishing is slightly sucky I guess,
(6:52:29 PM) pocketbeetle: Thanks for letting me know. I can go back to being only slightly confused now, not crazily confused
(6:52:29 PM) Iskender: not for my amazing mounted seahorses
(6:52:43 PM) pocketbeetle: lol. Any intention of settling a coastal city soon?
(6:53:03 PM) pocketbeetle: There's a clams not far from my workbaot right now
(6:53:26 PM) Iskender: yes. it depends on the situation with bob though
(6:53:44 PM) Iskender: yup. and i'm financial
(6:53:51 PM) pocketbeetle: Are you thinking of expanding towards him? The land between you looks a little bare
(6:54:30 PM) Iskender: there are some nice spots
(6:54:34 PM) Iskender: g2g. dinner

Another nice conversation. Only one problem.

Iskender claims that he popped Fishing from a hut.
I believe him on the hut, I don’t believe him on the tech.
Let’s recap:

So it is a 22 point tech. So I’m still stuck with a KotE bulb.
Other 22 point techs it potentially could be if Iskender has somehow pulled off a miracle and got the Hippus teching like a beast: HBR, Philo.
Philo would be bulbable with a GPro if he got a similar event to the Kuriotates’ one, but I’m not even sure if there is a ‘neutral GPro’ event (definitely good (Amathon) and evil (Ceridwen), but neutral?).

I can frequently be dumb, that’s not a problem.
But being dumb twice in a row is less frequent, and when I listed those potential 22 point techs, I didn’t just miss out Fishing randomly.
It doesn’t belong on that list – it’s an 11 point tech. (I’ve gone back and checked multiple times, both in test games and also my score increase on T74)

Sooo… unfortunately it would seem Iskender is fibbing about something.
Maybe he got HBR from a hut and didn’t want to let me know he now has Horse Archers?

Who knows, I’m not going to get excited about it right now.
But it’s a cautionary note for the future.


Misc Diplo:

(12:24:44 PM) Selrahc: Um.. any chance you can tell me a vague direction to go for to get Sareln?
(12:25:17 PM) Selrahc: I've signed peace with Cull, we're in the middle of negotiations.
(12:26:00 PM) Selrahc: He actually vanished right in the middle of them last night.
(12:27:18 PM) Selrahc: Tell you what though. Major good luck.
(12:27:38 PM) Selrahc: After I'd signed the peace, I loaded up the save to see how easily I could have razed the capital.
(12:27:57 PM) Selrahc: And lost Riuros(the S9) to a 99.7% battle.
(12:28:06 PM) Selrahc: Glad I signed peace when I did.
(12:28:13 PM) pocketbeetle: S9?
(12:28:18 PM) Selrahc: Commander/axe
(12:28:26 PM) Selrahc: Strength 9
(12:29:18 PM) Selrahc: I would have been fairly vexed if that had happened in actual play.
(12:29:25 PM) pocketbeetle: oh wow
(12:29:29 PM) pocketbeetle: yeah mega ouch
(12:29:32 PM) pocketbeetle: okay
(12:29:49 PM) pocketbeetle: Fantastic news about you signing peace with the Dwarves!
(12:30:14 PM) pocketbeetle: As for telling you where the Elves are, I Pb Lord of the Kuriotates could never condone senseless slaughter.
(12:30:27 PM) pocketbeetle: But I hear Veez has had a lot of scouts to the South recently
(12:30:46 PM) Selrahc: Alright. I'll go play my turn then.
(12:33:50 PM) Selrahc: Ah economic collapse...
(12:34:05 PM) Selrahc: Making a loss on 10% science.
(12:34:15 PM) pocketbeetle: what? Isn't city states kicking ass?
(12:34:25 PM) Selrahc: Not yet...
(12:34:48 PM) Selrahc: The fact that I'm working only 2 commerce producing tiles across my entire empire has something to do with it.
(12:35:13 PM) Selrahc: It'll kick in when I get some cottages up.
(12:35:16 PM) pocketbeetle: Oh, okay. You connected up Sareln's cities to the capital yet?
(12:35:24 PM) Selrahc: Just doing it now.
(12:35:27 PM) Selrahc: Next turn.
(12:35:39 PM) Selrahc: Assuming I don't get eaten by a spider.
(12:35:47 PM) Selrahc: Hm.
(12:35:53 PM) Selrahc: I hate spiders.
(12:35:54 PM) pocketbeetle: lol. I haven't seen any spiders yet.
(12:36:10 PM) pocketbeetle: Me too, weird none have hassled me yet
(12:36:39 PM) pocketbeetle: still got my C3 bear
(12:37:04 PM) Selrahc: If we question it too much they'll come and eat us in the night.
(12:37:13 PM) pocketbeetle: currently frozen in place, sitting his ass on a city tile
(12:37:34 PM) pocketbeetle: yeah. let's just hope we dont get any spider in the mine events
(12:37:48 PM) Selrahc: I honestly don't find them bad at all.
(12:38:01 PM) Selrahc: Animals won't attack in your territory...
(12:38:27 PM) Selrahc: so if it happens right in your core then there is nothing the spider can do.
(12:38:48 PM) Selrahc: And you can sweep it up at your leisure with a hunter
(12:39:07 PM) pocketbeetle: just sits there, taking up a mine, and getting fed xp by me trying to kill it
(12:39:29 PM) Selrahc: The secret is to remove recon units from the area.
(12:39:42 PM) Selrahc: When it's invisible it doesn't block the tile from being worked.
(12:40:17 PM) pocketbeetle: v true! Don't think I did that
(12:43:12 PM) Selrahc: My land is pretty much festooned with health resources.
(12:44:07 PM) Selrahc: It looks like it'll be pretty easy to grab almost every single one in the game, from bananas to rice
(12:44:27 PM) Selrahc: The only one it would be a stretch to get is clam.
(12:44:40 PM) pocketbeetle: crab?
(12:45:14 PM) Selrahc: Crab is in the north. Might also be alittle tricky.
(12:45:34 PM) Selrahc: Although only if you set out to poach it.
(12:46:09 PM) Selrahc:
(12:46:09 PM) Selrahc: Not that I'd really mind. I basically don't see health being a problem with the land I have.
(12:46:15 PM) pocketbeetle: Well I dunno. I do want something to trade for that corn!
(12:46:26 PM) pocketbeetle: We'll work it out, no worries
(12:46:41 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. Sure.
(12:46:57 PM) Selrahc: How you doing for health stuff?
(12:47:07 PM) pocketbeetle: same. lots
(12:47:25 PM) pocketbeetle: Just want the foodstuff for my cheap granaries etc
(12:47:41 PM) Selrahc: Don't forget deruptus.
(12:47:49 PM) pocketbeetle: True, that also
(12:47:54 PM) Selrahc: +30% commerce if you've got all three resources
(12:48:01 PM) Selrahc: Which is nothing to sniff at.
(12:48:07 PM) pocketbeetle:

• Selrahc making a loss at 10% science?
  
• I fully intend to poach that Crab to the North of us.
  (If you haven't realised by now, me saying "We'll work something out later" means "Let's not talk about it now, until I've figured out how to get it away from you without you minding."
  
  

Note to self:
Need to ask Iskender how he knew I’d founded AV, keep forgetting.

.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 100:

Research turned up to full blast, no little T100 turn reports going to see it.
Selrahc accepted the Corn for Fish deal, which gives me an irrelevant +1 net health in every city, the importance of this deal will come later.

Worker-wise:
At Avelorn, Bob is still farming the plains tile. Bobby Moore is mining the glh.
At Caledor, in the top right Bobbin Threadbare is roading the glf tile. Picture a settlement NW of the Horses and you’ll see why.
There are three workers around Caledor cottaging (one SW and two stacked 2E), while I think it’s Bob-A-Long standing on the forest 1S who will be chopping into the Deruptus Brewery.



Clicking end turn produced the Kurios’ seventh worker and meant Avelorn grew to size 8.


Demographics:

Cull gained 2 points cultural score for the base square of Shadowed Vale, after he retook it on T79.


And so ends my comprehensive T100 report.

Alright maybe not.

[pocketbeetle]

State of the Nation: T100

City Update:

(All screenies were taken before clicking end turn on T100.)



Kwythellar:
No longer running any specialists and with all food sources hooked up, Kwythellar is starting to kick some ass.
It’s currently set for 2t growth, even though it pains me not to be working the oasis.
On reaching size 11, the city will be able to work all of its mines while still maintaining a +8/+9 food surplus. That should allow it to grow into the +2 happy provided by the Tailor and +1 happy from the RoK temple.
Note the Heron Throne is now in the build queue.

Unusual thought for the future: scorching the glh mines down to plains hills, getting 4h out of them.
Never done that before, but with a lighthouse built, it could be a smart move.




Caledor:
Poor Caledor. It was crippled by the Harpy event, and I’m still wondering if I made the correct choice. A free GArt is all very well, but this city should be four sizes larger at pop 12 pushing 13, with the Deruptus nearly finished.
Instead it’s been relegated to spitting out another worker while I get the happiness under control.

I’ve got 23h in the Brewery already, and intend to chop a serious number of hammers into it. I just want to delay doing so for now, because the next tech after Hunting (Archery) acts like Mathematics in base Civ4, giving +50% on chops (typical chop 8h -> 13h).
Why is the Brewery important? With Selrahc’s Corn it’s worth +30% raw commerce, which then feeds into the Academy for some serious beakers.
Two more cottages will go up next turn, the upcoming Tailor being built in Kwythellar will add +1 happy here.

I should remember to save some of the plains forests to the N; lumbermilled they’ll be 1f/3h, ie pseudo glh mines.




Avelorn:
Coming along nicely this city, although as expected, production sucks wind.
The exposed glh will be mined next turn, and the two glfh to the East will be lumbermilled as soon as Archery comes in.
I intend to chop the gl forest 2N-1NW of the city and cottage it. That tile overlaps with Caledor, and I’m partial to Avelorn working it up.

Plan for Avelorn is to build the Sage Council and RoK temple in its queue while growing to size 11/12ish, and then to churn out some settlers for city 4 and settlements. Won’t take too long, expect it to complete the first settler around T113.
I may interrupt and insert a settler after the Sage Council, depends on how desperate I am to get city 4 up.


Stats & Demographics:

Probably my most embarrassing screen. The arrival of the Hill Giants makes it a little more palatable, but it’s still pretty bad.

The ‘ouch’ screen. -28gp/t maintenance, currently being offset by +18gp/t in passive gold production from Markets and RoK.
14 of that -16 city maintenance is distance costs.

Nothing to say about this.

Score:
Selrahc has continued to climb at a steady pace. Bob is starting to gather speed after that Agristocracy switch, his higher GNP giving him more techs faster.
On either extreme, Sareln’s drop was obviously due to the Priests, while my jump was thanks to Legends.

GNP:
Not much to say, except that Selrahc and Iskender are both slowly picking themselves up from stagnantville. Out of the two, I’d say Iskender is doing the better job of it and is now starting to compete with Bob.
The first Kuriotates ‘kick’ happened after founding an Academy, the second was a combination of getting the Silks improved at Caledor & switching from no-prereq bonus MftD to AH.
Expect a third now that I’m back to 100% research and running two Academies.

Mfg Goods:
Kwythellar is the main reason why I’m leading here, although I suspect the other players are being a little bit slack in getting a decent amount of mines up.
The huge spike was when I was gunning for the Pact of Nilhorn + working a decent amount of mines at Caledor.
A point to note is that Iskender is/or is very close to being rival best Mfg Goods.
Considering I don’t have him down for Mining yet, I’d say that’s a mistake by me.

Crop Yield:
No comment needed here.
I’ve got 26 pop, if my cities were stagnant and only just avoiding starvation they’d still be top. Selrahc is #2 mainly thanks to cannibalising Sareln’s food improvements and cities, while Bob clearly has a lot of aristofarms.
Three-city Iskender is down among two-city Sareln and Cull for crop yield, whether that’s a lack of happiness resources or food resources, I don’t know.
It doesn’t help that he’s not yet in Agrarianism, but then neither is Selrahc (or Sareln).

Power:
Again no comment needed. Just a quiet *gulp* and moving swiftly on…
Giants not included yadda yadda yadda.

Culture:
Clearly this guy is going for a Culture win.
So let’s leave him alone and wait until he’s nearly gone Legendary, then let’s band together and nobble ‘im!
It’s all good, we can like, follow his culture on the victory screen like, can’t we?


Enemy Territory:



Cull:
Cull’s magic tech is Calendar. With Calendar he can switch to Agrarianism (which he has done), can plantation the Silks for a happy, plus can expand to the Bananas, Sugar and Dyes all of which are in that screenshot.
Second city placement is okay, its understandable seeing as how hard it is to reach the second Silks, although maybe that could have been addressed during capital placement?
Note there are no roads whatsoever, no cottages, some mines, tons of farms.
He really needs to get roads down now, to get the palace Gold and Silks happy into Shadowed Vale, otherwise it’s going to be stuck at size 4.




Selrahc:
Not bad land, the desert in the middle doesn’t bother him. Very spread out though, hence his current City States “Emergency Maintenance Nuke” civic.
If he’s smart, he’ll realise that the area North around Letum Frigus etc is all guaranteed to be his (me on one side, Cull on the other) and as a result will expand South into the contested land.
What’s that you say?




Contested Land:
Somewhere in there, I’ve got to fit my fourth city plus gobble as many of those happy resources as I can feasibly hold onto (and in some cases maybe not even that).
Things I want: I want the Ivory, I want that Copper, I want those Sugars. Wouldn’t mind the Bananas too, and as for the Dyes, they’re one of those +10% commerce resources so I really want them.
Note my borders in the NW, Iskender’s in the S, Selrahc to the N, and for the moment Sareln to the SE, although Bob is just behind him.

Going to be some spilt milk over this area, and guess who’s Expansive and has access to zero maintenance cities?




Sareln:
No idea how long the Svartalfar will continue to inhabit this area, but for now they have a nice spot with Corn and Cotton.
Barb forts and Lizardman ruins all around however.
Bob’s lands are just to the South, with two floodplains and a riverside Gold visible.




Iskender:
Can’t see much of his land at this time, but judging from the culture I’d say the capital is located 1NE-1E of the Pigs. Surprised the Pigs are not improved considering that.
Hopefully he doesn’t yet have a city in the fogged area North, ie towards the Contested Land.


Techs:

Selrahc:
Agriculture, Exploration, Cartography, Crafting, Mining, Ancient Chants, Mysticism, Philosophy +2 Unknown = 10


Sareln:
Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Exploration, Ancient Chants, Mysticism, Hunting +1 Unknown = 7

Basically Sareln’s list is the same as the one I had on T75 when he last teched Hunting.
Since then, he’s been a slow teching mystery, and I’m not going to tie myself in knots trying to work it out.


Cull:
Agriculture, Calendar, Crafting, Mining, Ancient Chants, Education = 6

I had a two question marks over Cull’s techs, one was Exploration vs Anc Chants, the other Archery vs Education.
Now that I know he has zero roads at all (yet clearly has had enough bored workers to farm/mine/plantation everywhere), I feel okay about saying Ancient Chants was definitely the tech, although the question mark about why he researched such a useless gateway tech then left to go tech Calendar remains.
The second question is still not 100%, but given no Dwarven archers showed up vs Selrahc, nor apparently an archery range building, indicates Archery probably isn’t the tech.
Combine that with the farm-happy spamming and the current 22 turn gap since Cull last researched a tech, makes me think he was heading for Agristocracy but got interrupted at CoL by Selrahc.
We’ll see.


Iskender:
Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Calendar, Exploration, Crafting, Ancient Chants, Mysticism, + Hut tech (Horse Back Riding?) +1 Unknown = 9

Bah, more of an enigma than Selrahc currently.
The problem is I’ve clearly made a mistake somewhere, he can’t be #2 in Mfg Goods yet not have Mining imo.
Looking back to T72, the first tech he researched after getting Crafting (Mining prereq) was AH.
I think I made a mistake there and it may have been Mining.

The problem with changing that, is it then screws with my Hut tech: HBR theory (AH prereq) and means Iskender got Philo or KotE.
In which case, why lie?
I can understand covering up the fact you’ve just hit a military tech milestone, I can’t understand covering up the fact you can build Adepts or can use Incense.
So… I’m confused.


Bob:
Agriculture, Calendar, Exploration, Crafting, Mining, Ancient Chants, Education, Code of Laws, Bronze Working/Writing, Animal Husbandry/Festivals = 10


Overall:
As can be seen from the ever-increasing frequency of my meltdowns, following tech is becoming a lot harder.
Three reasons:

1. Maintenance, nothing more need be said.
   
2. Loss of prereq info.
   This was a big help in figuring out certain techs and the direction the player was often going, eg Ancient Chants -> Mysticism.
   Now that almost everyone (except Cull, he still lacks one) has researched all the starting techs, unless they pursue a religion they are guaranteed to receive a prereq bonus.
   
3. Larger GNPs make it harder to differentiate.
   A difference of 20b between two techs no longer counts for anything when the average GNP is 35+.
   

I think I’ve pretty much lost track of Selrahc and Iskender now, I don’t know where they’re going or what they have currently.
Similarly, Cull and Sareln are a slight mystery, plus are no longer major players.
If I need to beat one of them to a tech I should be able to, and if they sneak in first, I only have myself to blame.

Lastly there’s Bob.
Just as in the beginning it was beneficial for me to pay very close attention to Selrahc’s doings, so I think it’s time I concentrated on my arch rival and nemesis. ^^
I’m happy to give up on the others, follow them via turnlog and maybe pick out any obvious techs from score change etc. Selrahc’s maintenance and City States switch has lost me, while Iskender has taken a couple of twists and turns which, whether my own fault or not, has confused me no end.
Bob gets my full attention from now on.

Oh, and how many techs have I got?
14. =)


Diplomatic Situation:

Things are going okay.

• Selrahc is cordial, although I think my diplomatic antics have meant he’s kept his distance a bit.
  That’s fine by me, so long as he doesn’t invade with his Priests, we’re golden.
  
• Iskender is starting well.
  I think neither of us are interested in attacking each other, with Iskender being focussed on Bob and me more interested in being a peacenik.
  He’s currently under the impression we’re far away from each other, a bubble which at some point I’m going to have to burst, preferably before he spots a pink cultural border.
  
• Cull is mildly positive.
  He’s probably slightly resentful about the palace Gold arm-twisting, but there has to be some +ve attitude in there, surely, for keeping him in the game?
  
• Sareln…hmm.
  Svartalfar relations were starting to thaw, but are probably going to take another pit-dive when the Priests appear on his doorstep.
  
• Bob: still not made contact, to be honest I’m rather content with that situation.
  I’m rapidly realising we have little to say to each other and are never going to be allies (nothing personal of course, just Vampires are too big a threat).
  

So what do I intend to do diplomatically over the next 50 turns or so?
Answer: Nothing.

I’ve messed around enough recently with V’sGM#1 and need to take a step back, keep my head down and tech quietly.
Any further meddling will get me labelled as a manipulator (lies I say!), if it’s not happened already.
The scene is already set.

As detailed, I’m going for a peaceful type of victory.
I’ve got no big unit/advantage to reach in the next 100 turns. I’ve just got my economy and wits to keep me alive, with an aggressive neighbour next door and the Calabim teching to Vampires on the other side of the continent.
So I’ve come to realise that I need to aim for two things in this game:

1. Keep as many factions “in play” as possible.
   If Cull and Sareln had been eliminated, it would be down to a four player game.
   It’s a lot harder to hide among four players than six players, and probably would have ended up with me and Iskender being allies of convenience against an aggressive Illian/Calabim push.
   So I’m glad Sareln and Cull are alive at the moment, although Sareln may not be long for this world.
   
2. Everyone to have a worst enemy…that isn’t me.
   This is why I’ve been meddling a bit. I now feel that everybody has got someone to keep their attention, and no-one hates my guts beyond reason (except maybe Sareln).
   To list them:
   • Sareln: should hate me, but hates Selrahc more.
     
   • Iskender: hopefully very preoccupied with Bob for a while.
     
   • Cull: obviously doesn’t like Selrahc, but has a 60t NAP with him.
     Likely to conflict with Bob or Selrahc in the future.
     
   • Selrahc: Everybody’s best friend.
     I’m hoping that I’ve introduced slight cracks in that stupid stupid NAP he signed with Bob.
     If not, then I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he has enough enemies without taking me on also.
     It helps that the PoW Golden age is firmly on its way out, and in 20t or so when I can build Centaur Archers, will have definitely ended.
     
   • Bob: I don’t know who he hates, but I know that Iskender is likely to keep him busy. I’ll be pushing the Hippus to expand East towards the Calabim.
     Plus, in order for Bob to attack me, he’ll have to get permission from Selrahc.
     
   
   

Now, I don’t pretend to have suddenly realised this on T20, it’s been a gradual thing.
But it explains why I was quite happy for Sareln to survive the initial rush, and why I really did want Cull to live, warts and all.

In order for someone to bring war to the Kuriotates, they’re going to need an army, and secure enough borders with their neighbours to feel safe sending that army away. The further that army has to travel, the more secure those borders have to be.
As long as each person has a potential enemy that is closer, attacking me should remain a remote possibility.
So hopefully, I’ve sown enough diplo chaos to give me some quiet turns.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 101:

The new worker Silent Bob, springs into action! (He's busy SE of Caledor)
Two more cottages erected at Caledor, GNP increases again.



Glh mine and pl farm completed at Avelorn, Kwythellar reaches size 11.

Concepcion found a rather nastily placed resource:

Demographics:

• Selrahc got a new city called “Wonderful Time”, not sure where it is.
  
• Sareln grew to size 5.
  Apparently the Priests are knocking on his borders, poor guy.
  
• Bob gained 14 points for culture.
  It’s too early for his third city Acacia, which was founded on T83, so probably his second city Nubia expanding its borders.
  Does that mean he has a monument in there? Probably yeah.
  

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 102:

Couple of turns from the dungeon now.
Unless I say otherwise, I’ll move the Giants + Vanilla Ice onto the dungeon, then explore the turn after when they have movement to deal with any nasties.
Will use Vanilla Ice to explore, will explain later why.



Note the mushrooms in the top-right of the screen, between the two corns.
Produced by an event, adds +2f, so that tile is now 2f/3h.

Avelorn grew to size 9 on ending the turn, will grow to size 10 in one turn when I change it from working the default tile.



The +1 happiness from the Health event ran out also, so Caledor is back to unhappy.
The Tailor completing in Kwythellar next turn should solve that.


Demographics:

• Selrahc grew to size 8 in his capital Silent Night.
  Had to think about this one, couldn’t decide whether he’s grown it to unhappy or not. Don’t think so.
  So either he now has Calendar, and has improved his Incense, or has researched Hunting and it’s due to the Ivory at Sareln’s former capital?
  Don’t think it’s Cotton/Deruptus/Carnival yet, although could be wrong.
  
  
• Size 11 Kwythellar = 3c trade route for Selrahc, which explains the Exports/Imports section.
  

More importantly, turnlog shows Selrahc signed peace with Sareln, yet Sareln still seems to have two cities.
Hmmm.
Something to ask about.

[pocketbeetle]

Exploring Lairs:

Went and had a look into how lairs function in FFH2.

The following posts should tell you everything you need to know.
I recommend taking a look, they’re only short, and understandably most are by Kael.

1. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...ostcount=3
   
2. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...stcount=13
   
3. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...stcount=39
   
4. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...stcount=13
   
5. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...stcount=14
   
6. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...ostcount=2
   

Events are listed in the Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2\Assets\python\Customfunctions.py file.

Summary:

• Grace period is almost certainly over.
  
• Unit type doesn’t matter except for adding a few extra possible outcomes to the list.
  
• Using a unit > level 1 (ie at least one promotion) guarantees immunity to the ‘instant death’ lair result.
  
• Level of the unit gets added to the dice roll for outcome, but the effect is pretty mediocre.
  
• Most of the possible promotions you can gain from a lair are bad.
  (Crazed, Demonic possession, Diseased, Enraged, Plagued, Poisoned, Withered, (Bad) vs Mutated (Neutral) vs Spirit Guide or +5 xp (Good)).
  

Selrahc signing peace with Sareln implies the Priests may be coming home/ heading my way, so I have to play a little safer unfortunately.
Hence I intend to use the only non Level 1 unit in the dungeon exploration party – Vanilla Ice.
Worst outcome he could get would be crazed/enraged/demonic Possession, as that would mean I lose control and he wanders randomly looking for a fight.
As I’ve said before: enraged scout = dead scout.

Most other outcomes should be fine, including BigBad boss spawns.
Surprisingly, the merely ‘Bad’ event of spawning 3 x Lizardman is possibly one of the worst outcomes for me: Hill Giants are classed as Beast units (part of their attraction vs Priests) which falls under the ‘animal’ category, while Lizardmen, like Hunters and Scouts, are Recon units and gain +50% vs animals.
So a str 4 Lizardman, standing on slightly defensive terrain (hill/forest for +25%) has str 4 + 75% = str 7 vs Hill Giants ie 50:50 battle.

One thing you can do to prevent such an outcome is to cover all tiles around the dungeon with units, preventing any hostile spawns.
I don’t know what the other players’ attitudes to this are, but I think doing so is plain boring.
Gems would be a nice pop!

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 103:

Giants stomp stomp, workers cottage cottage, all quiet.



Tailor built in Kwythellar, giving me the Fine Clothes happiness resource in all cities, which made Caledor happy again.

Selrahc definitely does have Calendar, Incense is now on his list of tradeable resources.
Silent Night briefly moved into the top 3 cities, no more. ^^

I’m hoping that when Hunting completes on T104, I can get the next tech: Archery down to 2 turns and so start chopping asap.


Demographics:

• Selrahc gained 28 points.
  +1 pop in Twelve Days and a 22 point tech?
  This possible tech is very close to the time when Sareln’s old capital should have come out of revolt, so I may be wrong here.
  
• Iskender gained a 22 point tech.
  
• Bob gained 18 points.
  Check pop points: the top pop of 524k is Selrahc. Strip out his size 3 -> 4 growth.
  Bob’s change: 305.8k – 295k = 10.8k -> 54k change, - 27k (Selrahc) = 27k.
  ie Bob also grew one city from size 3 -> size 4 (Acacia), and so also gained a tech?
  
  Edit: Nope, it's cultural. Acacia founded T83.
  

[Maksim]

I notice you are quite high on score compared to the competition - mostly from the Legends world-spell but also because of your overall good tech position. Naturally, as you said earlier, it makes you a target.

Do you intend to continue being numero uno in score for a while yet, or do you have a cunning plan to raise it at a lower rate than the rest of them? Where do you see yourself on the scoreboard in twenty-thirty turns?