[Spoilers] Biggus Decius and the Sucking Vampires (Bobchillingworth / Calabim)

[Bobchillingworth]

Good points on the airships. I'm going to have to dive into the civilopedia later to see if there are any decent flying units I can have Gibbeon summon if PB parks himself on a mountain. Maybe Air Elementals, using Iskender's wind mana.



My completely unintentional spy network is paying dividends- check out this pile of emails between PB to Cull that Cull forwarded me:



[Sent on December 8th]

[COLOR="Plum"]

[COLOR="Plum"]Hi Cull,

Just wanted to drop you a note, saying hi etc, and also offer a small piece of advice.

I know that you’ve been expanding and building a lot of new cities recently, because you’re trying to catch up with the others (good for you btw).
But don’t forget that you need to keep hold of the land you’ve claimed, and I couldn’t help noticing that you’re still relying on Warriors for defense.
That might not be enough soon.


The Calabim can now research Feudalism (Vampires) and have been making noises about removing you from the game, something I of course don’t want to happen.
You have Bronze Working now don’t you? Can I suggest building some Axemen?

And if you need help, remember you can talk to me.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Safe Boy-King[/COLOR]

[/COLOR]


[COLOR="Sienna"]

[COLOR="Sienna"]I'm aware. Thanks for the heads up! Bob and I actually have a NAP for a little while longer, so it ain't all bad..

Also, thanks for the apologies on Vanilla Ice a few turns back, even thought it was more of my fault. Oops. Lets keep our diplo lines open in this scary world, huh? ^_^[/COLOR]

[/COLOR]


[December 9]


[COLOR="Plum"]

[COLOR="Plum"]Hi Cull,

It's good to hear from you!

Can you tell me when your NAP with Bob runs out?
Iskender has one with the Calabim until T200, I'm curious if yours is longer.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Chatty Boy-King[/COLOR]

[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Sienna"]Mine is until t200 as well.[/COLOR]

(haha, quick thinking there )


[December 10]

[COLOR="Plum"]Hey Cull,

Thanks for getting back to me regarding your NAP with Bob.
I guess that means he could equally attack you or Iskender, but like I said in our brief chat, I really think there's a good chance he's aiming for you.

Below is an email that Bob sent to me around 20 turns ago:

I bring you various tidings from Lord Decius,

I'll be blunt: would you be interested in declaring war on Cull with me at some point in the future? My sole reason for asking is so that we can eliminate him to make the turns run at a decent pace. I think you probably share this objective. I don't have an army set up to attack him right now, so I'm not talking about anything immediate, but I can put together a decent conquering force in short order. If you're interested, maybe we should see if Selrahc wants to get in on the action as well, Iskender too (although I get the impression that he doesn't care too much about the pace).

I know that taking out another player just to maintain a quick turnover rate is pretty severe, but I'm not going to stay up until the wee hours of every night waiting for him to remember that he's still playing in this game and send me the goddamn file. And if I can't play until I get back from class in the morning / early afternoon, then the turn will sit for hours until Sareln can reach it, and by then it may be too late for everyone else in Europe to play. So essentially we may be looking at a turn every other day. And given how slow everything is to happen in FFH, and how interesting this game has been so far, I'd really rather we maintain a fairly steady turn-a-day.

So yeah, any interest?

-Bobchillingworth / Decius / Whatever

I told him that I wasn't interested and wouldn’t get involved.
I have no idea how Selrahc or Iskender responded (doesn’t your NAP with Selrahc run out soon?)

The reason I’m sharing it with you now is to drive the point home, any agreement you sign with the Calabim is simply delaying an inevitable invasion.
You can see how aggressively Bob has settled in your direction, stealing both your land and resources, such as the Gems 7 tiles away from your capital.

I don’t wish to see any players fall to the Vampires, and want to help keep you in the game.
Please at least consider what I’m saying.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Walking softly Boy-King[/COLOR]

I definitely see what you're saying. However, seeing that I've sent the turn to him on time the last 15 or so turns. I highly doubt at this point that he would attack. I do get that I should build military, and defense. I would, if it wasn't for I managed to extend the NAP for a while longer last night. Long enough that I feel pretty confident that I can defend at that point. Yes, he might just be delaying it so that he can feed his vamps a little more before, but it also gives me time.

[December 11]

[COLOR="Plum"]Hi Cull,



I’m glad to hear that!

It means I can stop worrying about you then, and get back to concentrating on other stuff.



Just one last question, then I can drop this whole issue:

What turn does your NAP with the Calabim now end on?



Kind Regards,

Pb, Relieved Boy-King[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Sienna"]Not long enough. At this point, I'm doing all I can into military. :weed:

Thanks for the headsup about Bob, even though you probably already knew of Selarhc. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Plum"]

[COLOR="Plum"]Hi Cull,

Yeah pretty much everyone knew about that.
Why do you think Bob made you give a city instead of him?

Regards,
Pb, cba Boy-King[/COLOR]

[/COLOR]




-------------------------



So, PB went and forwarded some of my private correspondence to Cull in an attempt to screw me over. Cull responds by lying to PB and sending PB's private email over to me. In short, two wrongs made a right, and karma is a bitch

[Bobchillingworth]

Today seems to have been a banner day for correspondence.


Looong chat with Selrahc follows, but I think there's some very interesting information in it. Context is that I had just sent him an email concerning how we can get trade routes up, and letting him know that I had vassalized Cull (thank you darrell for leaving vassals on )

8:01 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Hey
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] oh hey
8:02 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] So you vassalized Cull then? Very interesting.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] yeah
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Did he get anything out of the deal, or was it just the prospect of not being eaten by vampires?
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] om nom nom
or lack thereof
8:03 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Fair enough. He would be in a pretty precarious position otherwise.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] he actually offered, but I assume it was a "read the writing on the walls" thing
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] I have to admit, I was thinking you were going to eat him up sooner or later.
8:04 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] I'm the Calabim, and I'm playing the least builder-oriented leader
I'm not fooling anyone
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Too true.
Planning on unleashing the pires any time soon?
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] heh
did you know that they're draftable?
this was news for me
8:05 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Wow. I guess it makes sense. I knew champions were draftable. It doesn't seem to fit very well thematically though.
That's got to help your production rate.
8:06 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] it's kind of a feedback loop, too
drafting unhappy -> free hammers
I'm not actually planning on doing this right now cause' it'll kill my science
but nice to know I guess
how goes that tower of divination?
8:07 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Currently sandbagging it. Sorcery due in a few turns. Arcane lore with the tower.
Got a lot of mages in potentia waiting for an upgrade.
8:08 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] I'm really surprised that you aren't going for the high priests
I guess that's gambling too much on too few units
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Yeah.
8:09 PM All your eggs in one barrel is a pretty stressful way to play a war.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] very true
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] I know I'd end up loosing a 99.7% attack at some point.
Plus.. I kind of like mages.
8:10 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] or on the defense; priests probably always defend first
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Nah. They're channeling 3 and world units.
Which means that the chances of defending the stack against none certain battles is heavily heavily reduced.
8:11 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] ah interesting... forgot about that
I guess you're looking at conquest?
one of the problems with this mod is that the peaceful win conditions are ludicrious
8:12 PM by the time you build the stupid tower of mastery or get a hundred prophets or whatever... you could have just killed everyone
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] At the moment I'm basically just attempting to backfill the rest of my land, and set up a good military machine.
8:13 PM I'll worry about converting that into a victory condition later.
I'm guessing you're going for domination though, what with your gobbling up of my erstwhile victims.
8:14 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] nothing is certain. But it does seem like my best option
personally I'd really like to win by religion. Found the order, spread it around to everyone. Kind of a redemtion theme. But who the heck is going to let me send inquistors into their cities?
8:15 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] I would if I got some sort of cut.
Shrine incomes for my cities or some such.
Maybe a mana.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] after a while though it would be too obvious
and it would all have to end in blood and tears
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Well, any one player can effectively veto it.
8:16 PM It's a pretty ridiculous victory condition.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] yeah. the game really does practically force domination or conquest. I think everyone even automatically declares on you if you go for the altar or tower, although I suppose that doesn't matter as much vs. humans
8:17 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Culture and Tower are fairly easy.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] ugh culture
that is a sissy way to win
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Well yeah.
So is tower though.
8:18 PM All you need to do is settle 4 nodes. Switch em around.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] at least you have to be kind of clever for that one
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] I guess.
8:19 PM I do normally end things with conquest.
Once the big guns come in, its a little too easy to overrun the computer.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] same
this is my first time vs humans
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Ditto.
Apart from those few mp sessions we did.
8:20 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] right
we should start those again... I enjoyed popping all those lairs on your borders
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Which I think I can safely summarize my experiences as "Luchuirp misadventures in lairs"
8:21 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] oh hey I think that Hyborem will be entering our game
sooner or later
actually, I am sure of it
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Yeah?
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] do we want a human to take over? can we have a human take over?
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] I honestly have no idea. I wouldn't think so though.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] going to be a mess with dead vampires... ugh
8:22 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] ?
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] each one gives a mane
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Oh. For being death casters?
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] yeah
8:23 PM if you want to summon hyborem quickly in sp, play the lanunn. If you want to have Hyborem be obscene, play vamps first and get feudalism
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] So are you summoning him?
8:24 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] I will eventually if no one else does first
the grimoire is a great wonder, and sacrifice the weak... yeah
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Huh. Well, it won't really affect me too much. What with the snow. I guess you're going Veil state religion then?
8:25 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] have to, at least temporarily
I don't know if I'll stick with it.
religion is probably the least-thought out part of my game plan
8:26 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Unleash hell and hyborem just for the grimoire (and maybe a few ritualists)? Interesting play.
You'd better be grabbing at least mithril working with it is all I can say.
Otherwise.. way too much effort.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] haha
8:27 PM which is the one that gives vampire lords?
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Divine Essence
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] what a stupidly broken unit
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Yeah. Pretty much. Archmage/Immortal is never going to be all that well balanced.
8:28 PM Fun as hell though.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] if you have the patience, yeah
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] really the addition of archmage skills doesn't help them that much.
You're summoning a wraith instead of a spectre.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] super-liches
8:29 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Yeah. But its the immortal part of the equation that makes them so good.
Compared to say.. Brujah, Vampire Knights or Vampire Phalanxes.
8:30 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] right
you at all concerned about pb's rising power?
I'm not sure what's going on with him
his play is all over the place
8:31 PM the raiders trait is disturbing
what a way to telegraph intentions. At least aggressive has defensive use
8:32 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] It's a little threatening. But I think its because he wants to have the units ready, just in case.
I'm not feeling that an attack is coming.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] I don't see how he could possibly benefit from one
but who knows.
I declare wars in SP all the time just to kill stuff
8:33 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] At the moment, whatever war happens is going to have to be thought about very carefully. The most likely result is weakening whichever two people get into the war.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] true.
8:34 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] But at the same time.. we're getting a lot of new pieces added to the puzzle. Mages. Empyrean Hippus. Raider Centaurs. And of course, vampires.
8:35 PM I think at the moment though, the benefits aren't enough to be worth halting peaceful expansion and going on the warpath.
8:36 PM Especially since you've taken the two easy targets off the table.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] yeah. Well, you could still attack one of them if you want a 3 vs 1, I guess
8:37 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] But that isn't really an easy target
8:38 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] hey, wanna be my vassal? I bet that would make you a really difficult target!
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Heh. If course not. The Winter King bows to no man!
*of
8:39 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] Perhaps we'll one day find out just how true your conviction holds...
or not. I'm not sure if I even need your land to win. I guess I can probably leave at least one person alone
8:40 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] I'd guess snowy land is probably among the least palatable as well.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] that too
your giant forest in the jungle is hillarious btw
8:41 PM best terraforming option in the game
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Yeah! Definitely.
I'm actually going to be lumbermilling that whole area.
Turn it into a good military crank city.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] oh yeah! Slow to grow I guess tho
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Bananas and cows.
8:42 PM Should be quick enough...
The main issue is how long it takes to build lumbermills in the ice.
9 turns base.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] ah
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Sometimes that +50% worker time really hurts.
8:43 PM But as a long term project, I think it has potential.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] I agree.
Alright, I need to get some work done
but I will talk to you later, no doubt
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Oh, okay. I was eventually going to bring us around to the trade thing, but I guess we can discuss that later.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] oh gosh I totally forgot about that
haha
um
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Not go off on endless tangents about diplomacy and war
8:44 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] well to be fair both diplo and war are way more interesting
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] True.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] I have no idea why we aren't connected for trade
seems like we should have been a while ago
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Yeah. I was wondering if it was because I don't have fishing and so might not get trade along rivers.
8:45 PM [color=“Red”]me:[/color] aughh
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] But then.. why would I be connected to sareln?
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] maybe... he has fishing?
dang that's probably it
I don't have it either
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] I might be wrong about fishing and rivers.
It's just the only thing I can think of.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] makes sense
8:46 PM ugh. you wanna research it? :P
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Well.. not right now. Gotta get sorcery out of the way. I could spare a turn after that.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] alright
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Just got my first coastal city, so it wouldn't be a complete waste now.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] would you be interested in trading body for enchantment mana?
8:47 PM I doubt you want shadow
8:48 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Hmmm.. At the moment my happiness cap is fairly close to the knuckle.
If you could bundle it with a happiness source for the duration of the trade I think I could make the deal.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] that's probably do-able
8:49 PM I'm giving a spare wines to sareln, but I think he can go without
I won't have adepts for a little while anyway
so no rush I guess
8:50 PM [color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Alright. I'll see if I can figure out any other cause on the trade thing, but if not then we'll hopefully be connected when I get fishing. And can resume trade discussion then.
[color=“Red”]me:[/color] sounds good!
alright, later!
[color=“PaleTurquoise”]Selrahc:[/color] Okay, seeya.

Also special thanks to Microsoft Word for the "replace text" feature! These chats would be torment to color otherwise.


Chat Dump Summary: There's a lot of refreshingly candid banter here about how we both intend to win the game. I think Selrahc is being truthful in his responses, so it looks like he is indeed planning on a mage / archmage centered military. I really do wish that FFH had more viable peaceful win conditions, but it doesn't and I'm not going to shed any tears over PB, Selrahc, or Iskender when their numbers are up.


Kind of tempting to just attack Selrahc first since he more or less admits that his army isn't anywhere near complete at the moment, but I've got a thing going against PB already that I want to capitalize on.



EDIT: What... sputter... why did the color not change?! The stupid code is correct! Ah screw it, I'm not going to manually replace all 200 lines of dialogue or whatever. Sorry.

[DaveV]

EDIT: What... sputter... why did the color not change?! The stupid code is correct! Ah screw it, I'm not going to manually replace all 200 lines of dialogue or whatever. Sorry.

I think everywhere else you did it, it's inside a [ quote] [ /quote] box.

[NobleHelium]

I'm pretty sure you have some unbalanced parentheses (well in this case brackets) somewhere that messes up all the tags.

[novice]

It's that nice Microsoft Word that writes “Red” instead of "Red".

[NobleHelium]

Ah yes. I had a funny issue with that recently actually.

You should probably just use a plain text editor next time, basically all editors have search and replace anyway.

[Maksim]

Yeah, Microsoft Word has an annoying tendency to convert standard quotes (") to curly quotes (”), which are not handled properly. Replacing them with standard quotes gives us this, hopefully more readable:

8:01 PM Selrahc: Hey
me: oh hey
8:02 PM Selrahc: So you vassalized Cull then? Very interesting.
me: yeah
Selrahc: Did he get anything out of the deal, or was it just the prospect of not being eaten by vampires?
me: om nom nom
or lack thereof
8:03 PM Selrahc: Fair enough. He would be in a pretty precarious position otherwise.
me: he actually offered, but I assume it was a "read the writing on the walls" thing
Selrahc: I have to admit, I was thinking you were going to eat him up sooner or later.
8:04 PM me: I'm the Calabim, and I'm playing the least builder-oriented leader
I'm not fooling anyone
Selrahc: Too true.
Planning on unleashing the pires any time soon?
me: heh
did you know that they're draftable?
this was news for me
8:05 PM Selrahc: Wow. I guess it makes sense. I knew champions were draftable. It doesn't seem to fit very well thematically though.
That's got to help your production rate.
8:06 PM me: it's kind of a feedback loop, too
drafting unhappy -> free hammers
I'm not actually planning on doing this right now cause' it'll kill my science
but nice to know I guess
how goes that tower of divination?
8:07 PM Selrahc: Currently sandbagging it. Sorcery due in a few turns. Arcane lore with the tower.
Got a lot of mages in potentia waiting for an upgrade.
8:08 PM me: I'm really surprised that you aren't going for the high priests
I guess that's gambling too much on too few units
Selrahc: Yeah.
8:09 PM All your eggs in one barrel is a pretty stressful way to play a war.
me: very true
Selrahc: I know I'd end up loosing a 99.7% attack at some point.
Plus.. I kind of like mages.
8:10 PM me: or on the defense; priests probably always defend first
Selrahc: Nah. They're channeling 3 and world units.
Which means that the chances of defending the stack against none certain battles is heavily heavily reduced.
8:11 PM me: ah interesting... forgot about that
I guess you're looking at conquest?
one of the problems with this mod is that the peaceful win conditions are ludicrious
8:12 PM by the time you build the stupid tower of mastery or get a hundred prophets or whatever... you could have just killed everyone
Selrahc: At the moment I'm basically just attempting to backfill the rest of my land, and set up a good military machine.
8:13 PM I'll worry about converting that into a victory condition later.
I'm guessing you're going for domination though, what with your gobbling up of my erstwhile victims.
8:14 PM me: nothing is certain. But it does seem like my best option
personally I'd really like to win by religion. Found the order, spread it around to everyone. Kind of a redemtion theme. But who the heck is going to let me send inquistors into their cities?
8:15 PM Selrahc: I would if I got some sort of cut.
Shrine incomes for my cities or some such.
Maybe a mana.
me: after a while though it would be too obvious
and it would all have to end in blood and tears
Selrahc: Well, any one player can effectively veto it.
8:16 PM It's a pretty ridiculous victory condition.
me: yeah. the game really does practically force domination or conquest. I think everyone even automatically declares on you if you go for the altar or tower, although I suppose that doesn't matter as much vs. humans
8:17 PM Selrahc: Culture and Tower are fairly easy.
me: ugh culture
that is a sissy way to win
Selrahc: Well yeah.
So is tower though.
8:18 PM All you need to do is settle 4 nodes. Switch em around.
me: at least you have to be kind of clever for that one
Selrahc: I guess.
8:19 PM I do normally end things with conquest.
Once the big guns come in, its a little too easy to overrun the computer.
me: same
this is my first time vs humans
Selrahc: Ditto.
Apart from those few mp sessions we did.
8:20 PM me: right
we should start those again... I enjoyed popping all those lairs on your borders
Selrahc: Which I think I can safely summarize my experiences as "Luchuirp misadventures in lairs"
8:21 PM me: oh hey I think that Hyborem will be entering our game
sooner or later
actually, I am sure of it
Selrahc: Yeah?
me: do we want a human to take over? can we have a human take over?
Selrahc: I honestly have no idea. I wouldn't think so though.
me: going to be a mess with dead vampires... ugh
8:22 PM Selrahc: ?
me: each one gives a mane
Selrahc: Oh. For being death casters?
me: yeah
8:23 PM if you want to summon hyborem quickly in sp, play the lanunn. If you want to have Hyborem be obscene, play vamps first and get feudalism
Selrahc: So are you summoning him?
8:24 PM me: I will eventually if no one else does first
the grimoire is a great wonder, and sacrifice the weak... yeah
Selrahc: Huh. Well, it won't really affect me too much. What with the snow. I guess you're going Veil state religion then?
8:25 PM me: have to, at least temporarily
I don't know if I'll stick with it.
religion is probably the least-thought out part of my game plan
8:26 PM Selrahc: Unleash hell and hyborem just for the grimoire (and maybe a few ritualists)? Interesting play.
You'd better be grabbing at least mithril working with it is all I can say.
Otherwise.. way too much effort.
me: haha
8:27 PM which is the one that gives vampire lords?
Selrahc: Divine Essence
me: what a stupidly broken unit
Selrahc: Yeah. Pretty much. Archmage/Immortal is never going to be all that well balanced.
8:28 PM Fun as hell though.
me: if you have the patience, yeah
Selrahc: really the addition of archmage skills doesn't help them that much.
You're summoning a wraith instead of a spectre.
me: super-liches
8:29 PM Selrahc: Yeah. But its the immortal part of the equation that makes them so good.
Compared to say.. Brujah, Vampire Knights or Vampire Phalanxes.
8:30 PM me: right
you at all concerned about pb's rising power?
I'm not sure what's going on with him
his play is all over the place
8:31 PM the raiders trait is disturbing
what a way to telegraph intentions. At least aggressive has defensive use
8:32 PM Selrahc: It's a little threatening. But I think its because he wants to have the units ready, just in case.
I'm not feeling that an attack is coming.
me: I don't see how he could possibly benefit from one
but who knows.
I declare wars in SP all the time just to kill stuff
8:33 PM Selrahc: At the moment, whatever war happens is going to have to be thought about very carefully. The most likely result is weakening whichever two people get into the war.
me: true.
8:34 PM Selrahc: But at the same time.. we're getting a lot of new pieces added to the puzzle. Mages. Empyrean Hippus. Raider Centaurs. And of course, vampires.
8:35 PM I think at the moment though, the benefits aren't enough to be worth halting peaceful expansion and going on the warpath.
8:36 PM Especially since you've taken the two easy targets off the table.
me: yeah. Well, you could still attack one of them if you want a 3 vs 1, I guess
8:37 PM Selrahc: But that isn't really an easy target
8:38 PM me: hey, wanna be my vassal? I bet that would make you a really difficult target!
Selrahc: Heh. If course not. The Winter King bows to no man!
*of
8:39 PM me: Perhaps we'll one day find out just how true your conviction holds...
or not. I'm not sure if I even need your land to win. I guess I can probably leave at least one person alone
8:40 PM Selrahc: I'd guess snowy land is probably among the least palatable as well.
me: that too
your giant forest in the jungle is hillarious btw
8:41 PM best terraforming option in the game
Selrahc: Yeah! Definitely.
I'm actually going to be lumbermilling that whole area.
Turn it into a good military crank city.
me: oh yeah! Slow to grow I guess tho
Selrahc: Bananas and cows.
8:42 PM Should be quick enough...
The main issue is how long it takes to build lumbermills in the ice.
9 turns base.
me: ah
Selrahc: Sometimes that +50% worker time really hurts.
8:43 PM But as a long term project, I think it has potential.
me: I agree.
Alright, I need to get some work done
but I will talk to you later, no doubt
Selrahc: Oh, okay. I was eventually going to bring us around to the trade thing, but I guess we can discuss that later.
me: oh gosh I totally forgot about that
haha
um
Selrahc: Not go off on endless tangents about diplomacy and war
8:44 PM me: well to be fair both diplo and war are way more interesting
Selrahc: True.
me: I have no idea why we aren't connected for trade
seems like we should have been a while ago
Selrahc: Yeah. I was wondering if it was because I don't have fishing and so might not get trade along rivers.
8:45 PM me: aughh
Selrahc: But then.. why would I be connected to sareln?
me: maybe... he has fishing?
dang that's probably it
I don't have it either
Selrahc: I might be wrong about fishing and rivers.
It's just the only thing I can think of.
me: makes sense
8:46 PM ugh. you wanna research it? :P
Selrahc: Well.. not right now. Gotta get sorcery out of the way. I could spare a turn after that.
me: alright
Selrahc: Just got my first coastal city, so it wouldn't be a complete waste now.
me: would you be interested in trading body for enchantment mana?
8:47 PM I doubt you want shadow
8:48 PM Selrahc: Hmmm.. At the moment my happiness cap is fairly close to the knuckle.
If you could bundle it with a happiness source for the duration of the trade I think I could make the deal.
me: that's probably do-able
8:49 PM I'm giving a spare wines to sareln, but I think he can go without
I won't have adepts for a little while anyway
so no rush I guess
8:50 PM Selrahc: Alright. I'll see if I can figure out any other cause on the trade thing, but if not then we'll hopefully be connected when I get fishing. And can resume trade discussion then.
me: sounds good!
alright, later!
Selrahc: Okay, seeya.

[Bobchillingworth]

Thank you!

[Bobchillingworth]

Wrapping up the diplo update...



The last message from Iskender that I posted was him talking about the suddenly realized danger of airships. Here's the rest of the conversation:


[COLOR="Red"]

[COLOR="Red"]Hey,


Damn, I admit that I hadn't even considered airships as a possibility. Flying & free movement for embarked units- nasty.


For the NAP, let's just add a cool-down period. Less of a hassle to keep track of than counting down turns. Will 10 turns work for you? I attach no particular significance to that number, so feel free to propose an alternate.

Regarding the Veil, I am going to eventually switch to the religion for the Ritualists, but quite likely not for a while. I am first going to found the Council of Esus and build Gibbon. I therefore won't challenge your claim to the Grimoire if you research the Infernal Pact first. If I do get to the Pact before you, and I have a large number of other techs that I'm going to research first, then we may need to discuss which of us will get the most benefit out of the wonder, but I won't unilaterally try to build it without consulting with you first. I'm guessing that you want the Grimoire to get Mono for free? I do wonder whether it might be more efficient to just research Monotheism straight away in that case without bothering with the Veil, although you wouldn't get any Ritualists. Let me know as you near researching the Pact, I'm going to want to fill in some land first before Hyborem starts squatting on it. The Infernal might become quite powerful if a human player takes over for them- dead vampires = lots of free manes. It's less interesting for the poor lurkers, but we may just want to keep Hyborem as an AI for this game.

Concerning the Tower of Divination, I agree that we should cooperate together to complete ours. I intend to use my mana node as a Death node for my specters, which would leave us one short- except that you could build the Empyrean shrine for the free Sun mana. The shrine itself provides some pretty neat benefits, and I assume you'll want it to help boost Chalid anyway, so hopefully that works out.

I agree on the goblin forts. I might just end up mind-controlling all of mine for free archer MP. Is there still a Hill Giant roaming around your southern territory? I wonder if it might be worthwhile to try controlling him as well... unless you would like to kill him for exp, of course.


Please let me know if PB mentions any military plans vs. me, and I'll of course do the same for you.[/COLOR]

[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Lime"]I think 5 turn cool-down period would be perfect taking into accout
the fact that the pace of the game accelerates with each turn and soon
10 turns is going to be quite a long time.

I'm relieved to see that we can avoid the race for the Grimoire. Let's
say that makes us even after that barb city incident. You plan to
convert from Esus to AV, but you do realize that it will make Gibbon
abandon your civ?

My choice of the free tech depends on my assessment of the chances of
getting the Grimoire - if I see that getting it is at risk I'll settle
for a cheaper tech such as Religious Law. Hyborem won't be much of an
issue - I'd like to give it to the AI.

Dies Diei is tempting, but that's distant future. My next great person
will be a crossbreed and will be used to trigger a Golden Age. The guy
after probably won't not appear until 50 turns from now, less if I
gamble and pollute the GPP pool with non-prophets but i'm hesitant to
do this.

There's one more issue that cropped up recently regarding that new
Sareln's city. I've been telling Pb how irritated I am about it. I
was, in fact, until I saw Airships looming on the horizon. Now I'm
continuing with the story not to alert him that something's changed
(we may use it to our advantage soon). I've told Pb that i wanted to
grab the city and the only thing that stops me is the Calabim units
garrisoned there, since I explicitly promised not to attack Svartalfar
cities with garrisoned Calabim troops (I was sure there were some
Bloodpets left in Thariss). Well, Pb called this bluff and scouted the
city with a hawk, which revealed only a single hunter and I have have
two horsemen in range.

Now I need to do something to go on with the bluff. I was thinking of
declaring a fake war on Sareln and moving the horsemen next to the
city. I'll say Pb I'm trying to extort some resources from Sareln for
not attacking the city, and hope Pb buys it. In any case don't worry
if you see the declaration and two horsemen next to Thariss. If you
have a different idea how to solve that issue without alerting Pb
please let me know. If I notice any signs of him planning a military
action I'll let you know.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Red"]Hi, quick response from me:


I don't think you need to bother with a phony war. Cull is now my vassal (he actually offered capitulation without prompting) [but don't tell PB the circumstances], and PB is well aware that Sareln is considered under my protection as well. If he questions what's up, I would tell him that while you would certainly love to grab that city, you really don't want to have a 3 vs 1 on your hands, especially since one of those players is now clearly capable of fielding vampires. Realpolitik, and all. [/COLOR]

[COLOR="Lime"]
OK, it's settled. No war neccessary. If you can please move a few
bloodpets to Thariss though, to give me an excuse in the future.[/COLOR]

Summary: It's a great stroke of luck for me that Iskender has stumbled upon the boogeyman of airships. Is PB really planning on invading the Hippus with an armada of flying boats? I'm not particularly convinced that the threat actually exists, but I'm obviously not going to try to disabuse him of his delusions. Besides it would be awfully hypocritical of me, since I've spent the last several turns preparing for an anti-Calabim alliance that increasingly seems to have never existed.

I have no idea at all why everyone now feels compelled to outright lie to PB about their relationship with me. Wouldn't it have made more sense for Iskender and Cull to simply tell him that they're terrified of me but would get to work on building military ASAP, and leave it at that? That line of response would have the advantage of having a substantial basis in truth and conveniently explaining any dramatic rise in Hippus or Khazad power. I think that Iskender is just going to end up unintentionally tipping off PB, but if that means that PB is well-positioned to kill his fair share of Hippus units when we attack him it works out well enough for me.

Iskender also gives the impression that he badly needs to get his priorities in order. He's taking a huge tech diversion from the religion he actually wants in order to get a wonder that will give him a free tech he probably could have just researched more quickly manually. He's apparently only working with me because he's utterly terrified of airships, ignoring the implicit threat that if he doesn't work with me, he faces the much more realistic and immediate threat of my Vampires. All of this benefits me, but it really is strange behavior to behold.




I haven't had the turn in a little while (I think Sareln is holding it while he's out traveling somewhere), but the next time I can play I'll try to post a shot of my vampire builds and a Rare Exclusive Look at Cull's empire.

[DaveV]

I'm pretty sure that a manes is only generated upon the death of a unit with an evil religion (Esus, AV, OO). None of your units should produce manes now because you have no religion in any of your cities.

For dealing with airships: if he parks on a mountain, surround it with spectres and skeletons. Say he has a couple ritualists and four centaur archers aboard: he needs two turns to kill a stack of 6 or more units, and he always has a chance of losing on a 90% attack. If you can catch an airship in the open, or in a city, it would be worth sacrificing every unit in the area to kill it.