PBEM5I scooter's Duel thread

[scooter]

Well, Dazed didn't have enough of getting whipped around (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4233 - start at post 26 for a very fun game) in our last game, so he's going to try again or something. We've actually done a couple mini-games on the side since then (on and off, depending on how busy we were), but nothing consistent and/or worth reporting. Until now. So to fill up space, here's a comic that seemed very appropriate:



Why? Because we're doing a modern age duel, which is very new to me. Nukes are banned (as is a few other things), but you get the point. Dazed hasn't passed on T0 to me yet though, so I'm mostly just twiddling my thumbs until then. I'll write up another post next detailing some pre-game thoughts.

[scooter]

First off, can anyone direct me towards an article of some sort that details Modern Age starts? I have literally never played Modern Age start before in my life, so this will be very new to me. Dazed spent an hour or so messing around with some Modern starts just to see what it's like, so he has a tiny bit of a jump on me. I'm going to be with little to no civ access until tonight, so for now I'd like to do a bit of reading on Modern starts. Any good links worth checking out?

One thing I do (think I) know is that the research pace should be pretty much glacial early on. I also think we start with several military units, so that could make rushes a big factor. Either way, I'm going to try to start doing some research, and I'll try to compile a list of notable Modern age issues so I can figure out how I'm going to do my opening and then go from there.

Going to nag Dazed right now on chat and see if I can figure out what civ/leader I am playing.

[scooter]

We are Justinian of Maya. Or at least that's what Dazed told me. I was thinking through traits and I figured early on that Spiritual HAS to be the best trait for a modern age game, and apparently Speaker agrees. Or at least that's my guess based on what he gave us. I had no idea what the next best trait would be, so perhaps Imperialistic is also up there based on what he gave us. I thought it seemed odd at first, but now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure settlers are more expensive in the modern era. It also seems that the Great General bonus could be a very big deal. I wonder - are Great General points scaled up higher in modern starts? Or do they follow the same scale as an Ancient start? That could prove to be influential.

[scooter]

Few more random thoughts:

1. I'm thinking workshops will be more valuable than cottages. The problem is, it's modern age, so I need to do SOME research. It's hard to tell how much I need though. Cottages will mature faster with Emancipation, but I imagine Slavery, Serfdom, or Caste System are all more useful. So I'm not really sure how much I should be prioritizing research... Or even if it's more useful to divert commerce towards gold and rush-buying units with Universal Suffrage.

2. Serfdom is very rarely used in a normal game, but it seems quite valuable here when I will have an absolute truckload of tiles that need improving. I imagine that I will actually start the game in Serfdom.

3. Police State + Bureacracy + Organized Religion would give me +75% unit/building production in my capital I believe, which would seem to prove useful early on. I'm assuming religions are randomly handed out like a normal late-era MP game?

[SevenSpirits]

We are Justinian of Maya. Or at least that's what Dazed told me. I was thinking through traits and I figured early on that Spiritual HAS to be the best trait for a modern age game, and apparently Speaker agrees. Or at least that's my guess based on what he gave us. I had no idea what the next best trait would be, so perhaps Imperialistic is also up there based on what he gave us. I thought it seemed odd at first, but now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure settlers are more expensive in the modern era. It also seems that the Great General bonus could be a very big deal. I wonder - are Great General points scaled up higher in modern starts? Or do they follow the same scale as an Ancient start? That could prove to be influential.

I think settlers cost the same amount but cities come with 4 pop and a bunch of buildings. So with IMP you can found a city, start a settler, and whip it the following turn? Seems borderline broken actually. If that's really how it plays then I'm not surprised people play with rules like 1-city elim.

Edit: Oh never mind they do cost 4 times as much, that's a relief.

[Krill]

Settlers cost more in Medi+ eras than in ancient.

[Shoot the Moon]

First off, can anyone direct me towards an article of some sort that details Modern Age starts? I have literally never played Modern Age start before in my life, so this will be very new to me. Dazed spent an hour or so messing around with some Modern starts just to see what it's like, so he has a tiny bit of a jump on me. I'm going to be with little to no civ access until tonight, so for now I'd like to do a bit of reading on Modern starts. Any good links worth checking out?

I've never played a Modern start, so I have no idea if this is actually good advice, but the site has generally been pretty good for MP advice:

http://fastmoves.wordpress.com/2009/10/3...r-teamers/

It is for a 3v3 teamer on quick for modern/future, but I expect much of it should still apply for a duel.

[scooter]

Well [strike]T0[/strike] T325 is done and we are moving. I was greeted with this view upon opening the save:



So apparently I start with:

2 settlers
2 workers
2 marines
1 explorer

Start seems to be set to stay in place, but I moved my explorer and marines, which confirmed that I would be settling in place:




Before I forget, time to pick my civics. Spent a lot of time thinking about it, and I came up with:




Universal Suffrage - I want to buy some workers early on, so I went with Uni Suffrage. I'll probably spend some time in Police State as well.

Bureaucracy - Pretty self-explanatory

Serfdom - Feels weird choosing Serfdom, but it seems like the right call early on, as I think worker turns will actually be the bottle-neck. I skipped Emancipation because I may not even bother with cottages. Just doesn't seem worth it to me. More on that in a bit.

Mercantilism - This seemed like the one I was least confident about. I intend to build lots of water mills and workshops which would assume State Property, but I won't have any built for the first 2-3 turns, so Mercantilism lets me run a free Engineer for at least the first five turns.

Organized Religion - building bonus and free missionaries. Perhaps swap to Theocracy once I go military mode.


The turn is already passed on, so feel free to say it - agree/disagree on my civic choices for the first five turns?

My worker movement choice was also difficult. I had a few realistic choice:

1. Build watermill on floodplains
2. Build cottage on floodplains
3. Chop forests

I went with:



Watermill. A 3/2/3 tile seems quite strong for now... and that's before levees and multipliers and such. I was pretty skeptical of cottages immediately, but chopping seemed like a good possibility.. But I decided to go for the watermills. Because of Serfdom and using two workers, I can get that watermill done at end of next turn, otherwise it would take a good bit longer. I had no idea where to go with my second settler, so when in doubt, go towards green land:



Coal is nice but I could really use some food. Hopefully I find it. Finally here's the demos:



Errr.... Dazed? I think he forgot to revolt to different civics . Either that or he picked some really wacky ones. That free +11 hammers will be a big boost for me!


Why does he have a higher soldier count than me? That doesn't seem possible... It's 30,000 higher.

[scooter]

326 is in. Don't expect THIS level of turn update frequency all the time, but I'll do what I can. First, I opened the save to see unhappiness! What?



Well that's... annoying. Dazed adopted Emancipation. As a result I had to pull a marine back into the city. After completing my watermill, my capital looked like:



Settler moving:



Nice! FP + clams. Coal will probably have to be a different city... Also I think I will plant 1SW on the grassland. Demos:



Okay he still had a 30k soldier difference. I checked and this is the list of items with 30k soldiers:

30000 soldiers – Paratrooper, Tank, Panzer, Destroyer, Stealth Destroyer, Attack Submarine, Tactical Nuke


So . . . Did Dazed start with a tank and I didn't?? I'm confused.

[scooter]

Ok, I got ahold of Dazed. He started with 3 Marines and 2 Explorers, while I started with 2 Marines and 1 Explorer.

Speaker, did you set an admin password? If so, you could add them to me... Otherwise could you fix and restart us? We'll play our turns identically, but that 3rd marine especially will make a big difference as I need that garrison unit... Also that 2nd explorer would've gone SE instead of the marine.