August 25th, 2011, 17:25
(This post was last modified: August 25th, 2011, 18:40 by SevenSpirits.)
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So as many of you may have gathered from recent later-start games, there is a bug where you can build culture and still get normal production if you pop borders that turn. (And you can even get free food if your build is a worker/settler.) See here:
http://fastmoves.wordpress.com/2009/12/1...lture-bug/
Abusing this is clearly exploitative of a bug, and it's completely avoidable: you just don't queue anything up behind the culture, and it will never come up. Nevertheless no one has suggested we ban it, as it's pretty harmless (cities don't pop borders much), not that signficant, buffs something that's otherwise not that good anyway (music/building culture), and is kind of fun.
However, I just discovered a similar bug, that lets you build culture for free on a much greater number of turns... or wealth or research. I think it's pretty severe. It's a bit chancy by nature but I tried it for example on a recent save of pbem19 and basically got hundreds of beakers for a dozen hammers. (Note: this isn't the save we passed on! It was just tested after the fact. Also: this is probably much more than you could get on a usual turn, but you see the problem if anything of that magnitude is ever possible.)
Do we all agree this should not be allowed in RB games? Tangentially, are we OK with the already-known culture-building bug?
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SevenSpirits Wrote:So as many of you may have gathered from recent later-start games, there is a bug where you can build culture and still get normal production if you pop borders that turn. (And you can even get free food if your build is a worker/settler.) See here:
http://fastmoves.wordpress.com/2009/12/1...lture-bug/
Abusing this is clearly exploitative of a bug, and it's completely avoidable: you just don't queue anything up behind the culture, and it will never come up. Nevertheless no one has suggested we ban it, as it's pretty harmless (cities don't pop borders much), not that signficant, buffs something that's otherwise not that good anyway (music/building culture), and is kind of fun.
However, I just discovered a similar bug, that lets you build culture for free on a much greater number of turns... or wealth or research. I think it's pretty severe. It's a bit chancy by nature but I tried it for example on a recent save of pbem19 and basically got hundreds of beakers for a dozen hammers. (Note: this isn't the save we passed on! It was just tested after the fact.)
Do we all agree this should not be allowed in RB games? Tangentially, are we OK with the already-known culture-building bug?
Asking as a modder, Do we know the tech reasons behind the bug?
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Sareln Wrote:Asking as a modder, Do we know the tech reasons behind the bug?
Yes.
(But it's less worth using a mod for this than for example to make blockades have less range. It's easy enough to say you can't use it.)
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SevenSpirits Wrote:Yes.
(But it's less worth using a mod for this than for example to make blockades have less range. It's easy enough to say you can't use it.)
Right. But if it still exists in FfH, as long as I'm monkeying around in the guts I might as well fix it. 
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The massive exploit that you haven't described the details to looks like it definitely needs to be banned, however it works. The culture thing I could go either way on.
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NobleHelium Wrote:The massive exploit that you haven't described the details to looks like it definitely needs to be banned, however it works. The culture thing I could go either way on.
I would ban both, personally.
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Sareln Wrote:I would ban both, personally.
+1.
Darrell
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The bug you discovered its time consuming? And you know if can be used in Gspy games because i played some games and some people had too good science..
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mackoti Wrote:The bug you discovered its time consuming? And you know if can be used in Gspy games because i played some games and some people had too good science..
It's relatively time-intensive.
There's no reason it couldn't be used in gamespy games (once they can build wealth/research), though I do find it unlikely anyone's found this bug before.
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It's pretty clear that you will just have to rule to ban both. No one has given any reason not to ban the culture trick and you have to ban the new bug. You might as well ban the culture trick while you are at it.
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