[no players] The Map(s) Thread

[Commodore]

So, here's the tweest; all players have their starting positions and it's pure tundra everywhere else.

[Commodore]

So, seriously, here's the map. Basically, its a small toroid made up of two linked Xs, with two X islands that all players can access/fight over. There are some small changes, but here's a set of shots from the first few revs.

Mao's NW Babylonians:


Justinian's NE Persians:


Suleiman's SW Koreans:


Roosevelt's SE Sumerians:


Here's the center, jungle area. Modifications since taking the shot, slimmed the NW side, widened the gems spread, and moved a few hills.


Here's the other center, tundra area. Thinned some ice floes, removed peak silver, and so on.


Here are the islands of conflict. I added ice to the wheat coast and ocean beyond, I did not want to open things up too much for galleys, and this way galleons still have their power.

E-W

N-S


There is marble on this map, these little side islands.


Each person has a hilly/flood plains area like this between their start and the jungle area.


Thoughts?

[Commodore]

Aaaand attachment!

[luddite]

Seems like a very interesting map. One thing I did notice is that the Korean start doesn't have any coal. Other than that, it looks good.

Can you explain your reasoning with the leader/civ choices?

[Commodore]

Can you explain your reasoning with the leader/civ choices?

Beyond "these are guys I've never seen really showcased"?

Mao Zedong is actually a favorite of mine playing restricted, but that's largely due to the great Chinese starting techs paired with fun Protective CKN shenanigans. Exp is easily the strongest trait in this game, so pairing it with junky Pro is a good fit.

Babylon is another great/not great combo, with the nice Agr/Wheel start to go off, especially for an expansive who can start slamming down a cheap granary on the first growth cycle. Bowmen are situationally either great or so-so, if you've got incoming axes Protective Bows stop them butt cold but chariots (and especially Immortals) eat them for breakfast.

Brennus I like as an early rusher who then uses Spi to keep up building, but Justinian is another rare pick with the settler rush replacing the chariot. With Cre and Fin not in this game I'd rate Spi the next strongest trait, and one advantage of Imp over Chm is the ability to skip monuments to go for Caste border pops alone.

Persia is a fun little civ that hasn't gotten much love because of its crap UB. The UU isn't to par with the silly-strong War Chariot (except against skirmishers ), but it does work well with the encouraging-AH-first starting techs.

FDR has been played a couple of times but both times on island-heavy maps. I like his builder traits a lot, once they get going. I'm a pit annoyed with the shift to Sumer, sadly, but Arabia is probably indie for a reason. As it is, this is probably the strongest combo, with very cheap early courthouses, good techs, and a decent UU (does better vs. Immortals, worse vs. axes).

Suleiman is another fun one to play, Mr. Great Person himself. Doubled generals, doubled GPs, and...doubled settlers? I'd rate the leader as "fair". Korea is an odd duck, not-great starting tech but better with the exclusive shot at an early religion sweep if the player wants it. The Seowon isn't amazing but it synergises with Phi very well. Scientists bulb toward Education pretty directly, and the cheap Seowons that spring up the next turn make for an almost-instant Oxford, which can really turn things around. This is another late-blooming combo, but with careful Imp REXing they can keep up well enough in the early game, hwatchas being a mild help.

[luddite]

Ah, OK. I think those are all reasonable descriptions. It's just that, from the way you described the game, I thought you had some special synergy in mind between the leaders and the map. I agree, it'll be interesting to see some less-played picks, especially if we see a war between protective bowmen and immortals.

I've noticed something of a metagame shift lately on RB, in that people are starting to rate philosophical and spiritual a lot more highly. It'll be interesting to see if that continues in this game, as well, or if the raw power of expansive is enough to beat them.

[Commodore]

Ah, OK. I think those are all reasonable descriptions. It's just that, from the way you described the game, I thought you had some special synergy in mind between the leaders and the map. I agree, it'll be interesting to see some less-played picks, especially if we see a war between protective bowmen and immortals.

I've noticed something of a metagame shift lately on RB, in that people are starting to rate philosophical and spiritual a lot more highly. It'll be interesting to see if that continues in this game, as well, or if the raw power of expansive is enough to beat them.

That really is going to be cool. Although most people are still taking Cre or Exp with Spi or Phi, Ghandi isn't exactly being picked up everywhere. What we have here is the raw power of expansive, the two decent traits of Ind/Org, butting against the specialist power of Phi and the hybrid Spi, which are more and more in vogue hereabouts.

[luddite]

In most games that I've seen, Gandhi has been banned.
I'm worried that protective is just so miserable that it's almost like playing without any trait at all, though.

[SevenSpirits]

Hey Commodore, you got a final version of the map?

[NobleHelium]

That oil and aluminum are way too far out. It's the same as the iron in 23.

Anyway I think my/our opinions on the issues with the map are pretty well documented. There was a lack of resources in the area around the capital. The tundra lakes broke the no early boating thing. Generally I like your map shapes but I cannot agree to your resource placement, which in general has things too far out and has latent omniscience bias.