Civ V adventure?

[SevenSpirits]

I have a Civ V adventure I could post. Is anyone interested? Yes, I think it has genuinely become a good game at this point (though not as great as Civ IV, different enough to be worth playing too) with the sole exception of some bannable AI abuse. And if we're to be fair, Civ IV has some serious problems with AI abuse too.

If people are interested, there is one setting I want an opinion on: Quick or Normal speed? Normal has been traditional for adventures but nevertheless I heavily favor Quick.

[pindicator]

You're going to get me to play this game again, aren't you?

[yuris125]

I agree the game is quite playable, and a Civ5 adventure sounds interesting Yes, Quick speed is much better

[T-hawk]

I approve of doing this, with the caveat that we need to nail down and spell out what is considered banworthy AI abuse. As always, the concern for single player events is to make sure everyone is playing the same game, which includes any rules needed to patch over such holes in the game code.

Let's take a little while in this thread to go over the rules before starting an adventure. I haven't played Civ 5 yet myself (but such an event might well make me) so I'm not an appropriate head for that effort... Seven do you want to lead it?

Side question: What Civ 4 AI behavior would you consider abuse? We never needed any such rules for Civ 4 events... are there newly discovered loopholes? Worker stealing (the inability of the AI to protect or retreat them) is about all I can think of.

[SevenSpirits]

I don't know the game well enough to decide on any permanent bans. However the rules of the scenario I have in mind preclude most of them by one simple restriction: you can't sign any deal in which an AI gives you gold or gold per turn.

I would say that the most broken things you can do in Civ V are 1) scamming the AIs out of gold, by selling excess luxuries or strategic resources or one-sided Open Borders agreements, and perhaps (most brokenly) cancelling those deals by immediately declaring war. (Since the deals are a fixed sum to you in exchange for a per-turn benefit to the AI (and they will even loan you money by trading you gold for gpt directly!) you get all your benefit and they get nothing.) ... and 2) (so I've heard) signing massive numbers of research agreements with that gold and timing them all (and teching a certain way) to get a ridiculous amount of beakers from them.

The only element of this I consider more broken than stuff in Civ IV is where you sign deals for instant gold and then declare war to cancel them.

Edit: I forgot about what I consider abuse in Civ IV. Well, let's just say I prefer to play with Tech Trading off.

[NobleHelium]

I'd probably try it...no guarantees on finishing and reporting.

[yuris125]

Do you plan to allow unlimited bulbing? Research agreements are probably not broken when the player can't get gold from AI, although with Porcelain Tower (which a player can almost always get with GE from completing Liberty) and Rationalism (which AI rarely adopts) they give much more benefits to the player. But saving Great Scientists and using them to bulb last techs in a deep beeline is borderline broken, you can get much better military than your opponents in a blink of an eye

[TheArchduke]

I would be up for it.

[T-hawk]

I would say that the most broken things you can do in Civ V are 1) scamming the AIs out of gold, by selling excess luxuries or strategic resources or one-sided Open Borders agreements, and perhaps (most brokenly) cancelling those deals by immediately declaring war.

All of this existed in Civ 3, and we never banned these moves there. Civ 3 did (try to) punish the player in-game for it, that other AIs would consider the player's reputation and no longer accept per-turn payments after one such broken deal. Does Civ 5 have any such mechanism?

Anyway, I think we can host this. I'd like to avoid overlapping it with the currently running adventure so as not to fragment the player base, so it would open on Monday 4/16. Seven, can you give me a full writeup as per the standard page for RBCiv events?

[yuris125]

All of this existed in Civ 3, and we never banned these moves there. Civ 3 did (try to) punish the player in-game for it, that other AIs would consider the player's reputation and no longer accept per-turn payments after one such broken deal. Does Civ 5 have any such mechanism?

If Civ5 AIs don't like you, they will give lower prices. I believe they will never refuse a deal. But in Civ3 getting extra gold from AI is less broken. In Civ5 each luxury you sell can sign you a research agreement, which in turn gives you 50-100% of a later era tech cost. You rarely can gain that much money from Civ3 traits. Or you can use this gold to ally with a city state and get two luxuries instead of the one you sold. Not mentioning that selling open borders doesn't make sense at all, and I believe wasn't possible in Civ3