Slavery mechanics question

[Old Harry]

This is very slightly spoilery for Gillette in the Demogame so I'll hide it here:

In a city with a forge I put 15 hammers into a knight hoping to 2-pop whip it the next turn
(60 hammers * 1.25 = 75 hammers, 75+15=90 hammers = 1 knight!)
Civ didn't allow it though, insisting that I needed to 3-pop whip, which I couldn't do. What did I do wrong?

Not very spoilery I know. But that one knight could change to course of the whole game...

[novice]

Does that mean you don't want me to read it and answer it?

[NobleHelium]

Sometimes there are rounding errors.

[flugauto]

I believe the game calculates the hurry population cost before counting production modifiers, so the game sees it as 75 hammers equals 3 pop.

[pindicator]

I believe the game calculates the hurry population cost before counting production modifiers, so the game sees it as 75 hammers equals 3 pop.

This is exactly right. Whipping won't factor in the current turn's production

[Merovech]

I believe the game calculates the hurry population cost before counting production modifiers, so the game sees it as 75 hammers equals 3 pop.

This is exactly right. Whipping won't factor in the current turn's production

Well, it doesn't count the current turn's production, but it absolutely counts production modifiers, so I don't think that flugauto is correct. This is why it takes less pop to whip an EXP worker or an IMP settler, for example

[Old Harry]

I believe the game calculates the hurry population cost before counting production modifiers, so the game sees it as 75 hammers equals 3 pop.

This is exactly right. Whipping won't factor in the current turn's production

So even if my

knight

had

29

hammers in it I'd still need

61

hammers, so would whip 3 pop for 90 hammers, then add the forge bonus for 112 making a grand total of

141

hammers rather than 2-pop whipping for 60 (75 with bonus) making a total of

104

hammers?

Thanks guys - I can't have been paying very close attention over this last few turns cos I've never noticed that before.
Edit: Crosspost with Mero - Aha! I thought I'd never seen it before! So why did it happen?

Does that mean you don't want me to read it and answer it?

It probably doesn't make any difference...

[Old Harry]

I believe the game calculates the hurry population cost before counting production modifiers, so the game sees it as 75 hammers equals 3 pop.

This is exactly right. Whipping won't factor in the current turn's production

Well, it doesn't count the current turn's production, but it absolutely counts production modifiers, so I don't think that flugauto is correct. This is why it takes less pop to whip an EXP worker or an IMP settler, for example

Maybe EXP and IMP boni work in a different way to forges?

[T-hawk]

I believe the game calculates the hurry population cost before counting production modifiers, so the game sees it as 75 hammers equals 3 pop.

This was fixed a long time ago. Vanilla version 1.61 was the last time that bug existed.

I don't know what's wrong with an item at (obfuscated for spoilage) 55/130 failing to whip for 2 population for 75 hammers. My best guess is that the hurry cost is figured with each pop yielding only 37 hammers not 37.5.

[novice]

Maybe EXP and IMP boni work in a different way to forges?

Only difference is in what counts towards your MFG in demos. Conditional modifiers such as EXP workers, CRE libraries, PS units, etc., don't count. Unconditional modifiers such as forges, SP bonus, etc. do count.

Whips will always get the same modifiers as slowbuilds.
Caveats: Drywhipping and Kremlin affects the base efficiency of whipping, but normal modifiers apply to the resulting base yield. Whipping EXP workers and IMP settlers is efficient because the trait bonus applies to the entire whip as opposed to just the hammer part of a foodhammer slowbuild.

X-post with T-Hawk, I think he's right about the specific rounding error you're seeing.