May 2nd, 2013, 18:10
(This post was last modified: July 10th, 2014, 16:32 by Dantski.)
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Ok I'm going to take a stab at a tier list. Much like any other tier list that anyone else has ever posted this is based of what I have seen in my games and your experience and opinion will vary. I am also not looking to place an equal # of champions in each tier.
Lastly I'm not listing champions according to strength within a tier, just alphabetical order
Tier 1
Blitzcrank, Caitlyn, Ezrael, Fiddlesticks, Karthus, Lux, Sona, Ziggs, Zyra.
These champions carry ARAM's time and time again.
Tier 2
Ahri, Alistar, Amumu, Anivia, Ashe, Braum, Chogath, Dr Mundo, Elise, Galio, Gragas, Heimerdinger, Janna, Jayce, Karma, Katarina, Kayle, Kennen, Kogmaw, Leona, Lissandra, Malzahar, Maokai, Miss Fortune, Morgana, Nautlilus, Nidalee, Orianna, Rumble, Ryze, Sejuani, Singed, Sivir, Soraka, Swain, Syndra, Taric, Teemo, Thresh, Tristana, Twisted Fate, Varus, Wukong, Xerath, Yorick, Zilean
Some of these champions are a little more situational and require a good team around them, but any of these has potential to make a difference on a regular basis.
Tier 3
Aatrox, Akali, Annie, Brand, Cassiopeia, Corki, Darius, Draven, Gangplank, Graves, Hecarim, Irelia, Jarvan, Jax, Kassadin, KhaZix, Leblanc, LeeSin, Lucian, Malphite, Nami, Nasus, Nocturne, Olaf, Rammus, Renekton, Sion, Skarner, Trundle, Twitch, Urgot, Veigar, Vi, Viktor, Vladimir, Volibear, Yasuo, Zac, Zed.
These are not necessarily bad champs and can certainly do well in the hands of a skilled player. However I simply don't see them making a team a lot stronger with their presence.
Tier 4
Evelynn, Fiora, Fizz, Garen, Lulu, Master Yi, Mordekaiser, Nunu, Pantheon, Poppy, Quinn, Rengar, Riven, Shaco, Shen, Shyvana, Talon, Tryndamere, Udyr, Vayne, Warwick, Xin Zhao.
I could honestly split this tier into 2 as well, some of these champions can still do a great job but are heavily reliant on their team backing them up. However some of these simply are terrible champs for ARAM which you should burn rerolls on.
My picks for rerolls.
Evelynn, Fizz, Rengar, Shen, Shyvana, Tryndamere, Udyr.
Those 6 are simply awful, on rare occasions you will see one do well but I can guarantee their team is either carrying them or there is a considerable player skill mismatch in the game.
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Random thoughts. Corki and Draven poke is pretty baller but they're Teir 3? Why? Mostly a range issue?
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Like the attempt Dantski, definitely agree with the gist of what you've laid out, hope you don't mind me inserting my opinion on a couple of the champs into the thread. (edit: okay well that ended up more than a couple)- Firstly Janna.
If there's any support that is god tier it's this one, I rate her above all other supports without a second thought. Not only does she have peel, sustain and heal, but smart players go AP and max her Tornado first, and the range and damage on those hurt, resulting in a poke on the level of Nidalee (Tornado actually has longer range than Spear).
- Not sure I'd rate Sona a tier above Soraka, probably say they're the same. Sona has the ult, Soraka better sustain.
- Not sure I'd rate Kat as tier 1. Yes teamfight resets strong, but I'd just as happily take a good tier 2 champ over her.
- Anivia and Zilean I'd rate a tier higher, good Anivia players are unkillable and good Zilean players are fearsome. There's a reason GA is banned on ARAM, so any champ that brings one for free is amazing, and that's ignoring the Bomb aoe poke and speed up/slow down initiation/picking.
- Might rate LeBlanc and Yorick a tier higher in 2, both are built around the laning phase and poke/sustain or burst, ARAM is ideal for them.
- Might rate Skarner and Nasus down a tier to 4. Skarner literally does nothing until 6, and even then his ult is not easy to land with recent changes and low range. Nasus similarly struggles to do anything, no way he can farm up his Q. I usually just build Nasus AP in ARAM unless the team has no other tank. I would take a Rammus with maxxed taunt over either of these any day.
- Similarly Sion, Nocturne and to a lesser extent Lee Sin and Vi might be worth moving down to tier 4. (Notice they're (all) junglers, which tend to struggle in ARAM).
- Karma - much higher. Had one yesterday, she was amazing. Shield is great and the speed boost for initiation insane, add in mild cc and some poke, she's a champ that's much much better in ARAM than normals currently. Tier 2-3.
- Kayle without a doubt in my mind at least Tier 3, maybe even 2.
Excellent adc in ARAM with added utility from heal/slow and ofc the ult.
- Tier 4s that you may want to consider moving up one, Nunu (strong sustain tank with extra utility), Teemo (shrooms on the health buffs unbelievably annoying), Vayne (because it's Vayne).
- Think you're missing Karthus. Probably tier 2-3. great aoe dmg but ult cd is so long (200 seconds at level 1 = 3 mins 20s).
I also modestly disagree with your 'worst' rating on Fizz.
I've got two Fizz ARAM games in my history atm, both are wins, scores are decent at 11/9/21 and 23/12/14.
However I do completely understand where you're coming from. If you don't play the champ a lot, you will get wrecked.
For those interested, my current Fizz ARAM setup is to max Q first, then W. Use QW to poke, E as a 1 point wonder escape. Combined with starting Sheen/5hp pots, aggressive runes and 29/1/0 masteries, you do serious damage from the start, just don't overextend or go in without E being up.
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(May 2nd, 2013, 19:39)spellman Wrote: Random thoughts. Corki and Draven poke is pretty baller but they're Teir 3? Why? Mostly a range issue?
Both are decent for sure, but Ezrael + Caitlyn poke better and neither offers good CC. I'm mostly putting someone like MF above them just because of experience rather than a particular concrete reason. Corki just runs out of mana in LoL currently and I have literally never played Draven and don't recall seeing one in all my ARAM games so its possible he could be moved up.
pb Wrote:Firstly Janna.
If there's any support that is god tier it's this one, I rate her above all other supports without a second thought. Not only does she have peel, sustain and heal, but smart players go AP and max her Tornado first, and the range and damage on those hurt, resulting in a poke on the level of Nidalee (Tornado actually has longer range than Spear).
I rated her a 2 which means I know she's good but I disagree with her being the best support. She really doesn't work well as an AP just because any decent player will dodge 75% or more of the tornadoes, yes you can have hilariously good games as her vs people that don't dodge, but the same can be said for games with virtually any champion. Perhaps its worth moving her up to 1 based on the increased knockup duration for teamfight disruption but I think the top of tier 2 is fine for now.
pb Wrote:Not sure I'd rate Sona a tier above Soraka, probably say they're the same. Sona has the ult, Soraka better sustain.
If it was old ARAM on summoners rift then I'd agree, but sustain is not quite so important now with the health/mana shrines you can pick up. I think Sona is better for the CC she provides on top of the nice poke, in a bad random roll for your team she can also fill in as a below average AD, while AP Soraka I see fail more often than not (perhaps with a specific build it could work). I originally had both on tier 2 but I've had such high success with Sona that I moved her up.
pb Wrote:Not sure I'd rate Kat as tier 1. Yes teamfight resets strong, but I'd just as happily take a good tier 2 champ over her.
Was definitely a hard champ to place, I feel most decent Katarina players tend to stomp teams hard with the resets in ARAM's though (not as hard as Master Yi) but then again she's a weak champion in the hands of a novice. I think I'll move her down to 2.
pb Wrote:Anivia and Zilean I'd rate a tier higher, good Anivia players are unkillable and good Zilean players are fearsome. There's a reason GA is banned on ARAM, so any champ that brings one for free is amazing, and that's ignoring the Bomb aoe poke and speed up/slow down initiation/picking.
I've only seen players who were clearly better than others in the game play Anivia and yes they've done very well. I simply haven't seen her in enough games to justify a tier 1 placing. As for Zilean I think you overestimate how strong he is, his poke isn't really that amazing and is outclassed by several others, most players I've seen are bad with Zilean because he's not a commonly played champion but he's great in the right hands. He was also stronger back when you didn't get XP a lot faster and could force a teamfight at level 6 when the other team was all level 5.
pb Wrote:Might rate LeBlanc and Yorick a tier higher in 2, both are built around the laning phase and poke/sustain or burst, ARAM is ideal for them.
Leblanc has the same problem as Poppy, she's at her best when one person on the other team is carrying and you take them out to force a 4v4 teamfight (with your team now having leblanc autoattacks!). She's a selfish champion who is an inferior choice to tier 1 + 2 AP's IMO. Yorick's poke is alright but no more than that and you won't be killing many with it, he has minimal CC and nothing special in terms of damage. With the right team he can do well but on a team without an autoattacking AD or another really good choice for his ult he's not a good ARAM champion.
pb Wrote:Might rate Skarner and Nasus down a tier to 4. Skarner literally does nothing until 6, and even then his ult is not easy to land with recent changes and low range. Nasus similarly struggles to do anything, no way he can farm up his Q. I usually just build Nasus AP in ARAM unless the team has no other tank. I would take a Rammus with maxxed taunt over either of these any day.
Skarner is useless vs poke heavy teams I agree but chances are you'll be in a bad spot vs those teams anyway. He is reasonable providing they aren't all long range and his speedup/grab is far easier to pull off than Rammus' powerball/taunt because of the animations + unit collision. As for Nasus you simply don't farm Q and build him either straight tank or you can throw some AP into the mix. Spirit fire really shouldn't be underestimated and you can really change a teamfight if you place it well. Personally found him more successful in ARAM than Rammus.
pb Wrote:Similarly Sion, Nocturne and to a lesser extent Lee Sin and Vi might be worth moving down to tier 4. (Notice they're (all) junglers, which tend to struggle in ARAM).
I'm not a very good Sion player but he is no way tier 4. he can be built for pure AP damage and can put out a good chunk of burst especially with DfG, but he can also be a reasonable AD bruiser who gets crazy lifesteal with his ult and can 1v1 virtually anyone in a slugfest. On an AD heavy team his ult is incredible and really makes a big difference, an item like Bladeo f the Ruined King helps him out tremendously too. Nocturne is a 3 and not a 4 for multiple reason, firstly he actually has some poke unlike some bruisers, secondly his ult is still strong just not as a ganking tool. IMO you should use him as a disruptor on the enemie's main carry and just take them out of the fight. I concede he's not the best choice as a bruiser, but there's worse options. Lee Sin is all on the individual playing him IMO, he can be very strong sometimes (often enough to warrant a possible tier 2 rating) and carry a team hard, maybe you've just had bad Lee's in your games? Lastly I was strongly thinking of putting Vi at 2 instead of 3, so I'm not going to be relegating her to 4 anytime soon. Her ult is equivalent in usefulness to Nocturne's and she has the raw DPS to back it up while building tanky, I need to see more games of her to be honest though.
pb Wrote:Karma - much higher. Had one yesterday, she was amazing. Shield is great and the speed boost for initiation insane, add in mild cc and some poke, she's a champ that's much much better in ARAM than normals currently. Tier 2-3.
Maybe with the rework she is stronger now, I haven't had a chance to play her or see her played since that. I had good success with her is season 2 but it was mostly when any other support would've done as well if not better. I'll move her to 3 for now.
pb Wrote:Kayle without a doubt in my mind at least Tier 3, maybe even 2. Excellent adc in ARAM with added utility from heal/slow and ofc the ult.
This will come down to personal XP, IMO Kayle is a really weak ADC for ARAM and worse than virtually any other in that role (I've had better success with AD Sona), her heal is garbage and is always maxed last, the slow is alright but Kayle had a really hard time following it up without having the other team jump on her. The ult much like in regular games can be brokenly strong or useless, it's far inferior to Zileans ult IMO and is overrated.
pb Wrote:Tier 4s that you may want to consider moving up one, Nunu (strong sustain tank with extra utility), Teemo (shrooms on the health buffs unbelievably annoying), Vayne (because it's Vayne).
Nunu has always been a bad tank, he can poke reasonably well in ARAM with some AP and can force the other team to disengage with his ult but he's a weaker choice than most. Teemo is mostly annoying and the majority feed. The health shrines mostly cancel out shroom damage and his range is too short to be a good AD choice. Vayne has no poke as an AD and is short range, now the argument for her being moved up may be something like "well she gets to her items and lategame faster" but I'm not convinced. Part of what makes Vayne strong is her ability to kill tanks relatively fast and in ARAM there are simply less tanks. Maybe she should be moved up to 3 but then I'd feel like moving AD's currently at 3 up to 2 because I think they are better options so she'll stay where she is for now.
pb Wrote:Think you're missing Karthus. Probably tier 2-3. great aoe dmg but ult cd is so long (200 seconds at level 1 = 3 mins 20s).
Good spot, he's on my notepad list but must've missed him when adding to this thread. I massively disagree with your rating here and would put him in tier 1. He really does dominate ARAM's fairly regularly and gets strong enough to acquire a lot of AP. He can throw wall of pain across an entire lane and totally trap people who don't have flash and his passive is unbelievably good.
pb Wrote:I also modestly disagree with your 'worst' rating on Fizz.
I've got two Fizz ARAM games in my history atm, both are wins, scores are decent at 11/9/21 and 23/12/14.
Zero poke, skillshot ult thats not easy to hit and doesn't deal incredible damage and he only really hits 1 target. There's no place for AP Fizz in ARAM, maybe he could work with a tanky bruiser build but I wouldn't know much about that.
Kinda surprised no-one called me on Nautilus, I've put him at 3 with a strong feeling he should be higher, I'm going ot move him to 2.
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Made some changes and added the 2 newest champs.
Aatrox is put tentatively at Tier 3 for now, I don't think he should be higher than that and could be bumped down if I'm overestimating his potential CC/initiation and poke.
Alistar got headbutt/pulverized down to Tier 2. He can be good but badly needs his team to have the damage to take advantage of his CC.
Ashe's consistent poke and initiation was enough to convince me to raise her to 2. I still wouldn't pick her over Ezrael right now but her ult really does make an impossible game of 1 ranged character and 4 melees winnable.
Fiddlesticks was always a consideration for the top tier when I first made my list and I've put him there for now. Honestly if they don't have a good way to check brushes its very hard to initiate versus a team with Fiddle on it.
Karma was just reworked when I was making the list originally so I couldn't be sure on how her skills worked and how effective they would be. My assessment is pretty strong for ARAM without being overpowering, her poke can really add up, she has a shield for one or multiple allies and that shield gives a significant speed boost finally her short range tether can help stop a diving assassin or tank in their tracks. Tier 2
Kayle was upped to 3, I agree I was too hard on Kayle before as she has plenty of versatility by being able to go AD or AP.
Lissandra was added at tier 2. Only saw her once but her ability to initiate + lockdown a target and poke a bit makes her a good addition to most teams.
Orianna was upped to Tier 2, just felt she was too low.
Otherwise that's it for now, there are still a number of problem champions which I thought about moving around and I also would consider adding a Tier 5 to split the Tier 3/4/5 more evenly.
Those champs I'm thinking of changing include...
Thresh 2 UP
Viktor 2 DOWN
Xerath 2 UP
Kassadin 3 UP
Nami 3 UP
Renekton 3 DOWN
Ryze 3 UP
Syndra 3 UP
Twitch 3 UP
Zac 3 UP
Lulu 4 UP
Morderkaiser 4 UP
Talon 4 UP
Teemo 4 UP Honestly Teemo is one that really confuses me. Sometimes he is incredibly strong but can be worthless.
Vayne 4 UP
Warwick 4 UP
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Why is Veigar Tier 3? His stun is just obnoxious.
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(July 28th, 2013, 20:14)Krill Wrote: Why is Veigar Tier 3? His stun is just obnoxious.
True but you have to look at the list as a whole and compare him with other AP's. Veigars cooldowns aren't short, his stun on its own does 0 dmg and has no guarantee of hitting anyone and aside from his W he's all single target burst like a LeBlanc (who is also Tier 3). Also I think part of Veigars problem is that every one of his skills needs to be levelled up to be useful, his stun needs extra points in it for extra stun duration or else he's going to struggle to hit anyone with his W. His Q and W scale fairly well but both need priority to be useful
Looking at Tier 2 AP's, Ahri pokes better and her charm is lower cooldown and lets your team pick off a single target far better. She also does her damage to multiple targets. Anivia's CC is harder to land for sure but her teamfight damage and waveclear is far superior. Even Chogath is probably a better AP as he has decent poke, very strong CC and just as strong single target damage.
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January 19th, 2014, 10:17
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I moved my post from the other thread
(January 18th, 2014, 19:31)Dantski Wrote: You bought Warwick for ARAM?
I found the queue times to be over 10 mins on a regular basis after a while, I think I had one hit 25 mins before I decided to logoff.
I like Warwick, that may distort my perception of his usefulness on ARAM, but he has super sustain, great single target lock down, provides vision on the other champs via his "E", and is a strong tank.
While I love your tier list Dantski and often use it to decide on rerolls, your tier 4 has a number of tier 1 or 2 folks in it. Malzahar is a GOD on ARAM, that "E" of his eats minion waves giving you an easy first tower to push over. His "Q" can silence practically the width of the map! He is an easy Tier 1.
Pantheon is a beast, manly because he is SUPER mean in the early game, that level 3-4 fight, the Pantheon team wins every time (all things being equal).
Heimerdinger, Vlad and Zed might need moves up, with Elise and maybe Rumble going down
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January 19th, 2014, 13:52
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Just keep in mind that this list is rather out of date, this was when AP Yi was still a thing!
Atlas Wrote:I like Warwick, that may distort my perception of his usefulness on ARAM, but he has super sustain, great single target lock down, provides vision on the other champs via his "E", and is a strong tank.
Hey if you enjoy playing him go ahead. I strongly disagree that he's worth buying for ARAM if you weren't biased though.
Atlas Wrote:While I love your tier list Dantski and often use it to decide on rerolls, your tier 4 has a number of tier 1 or 2 folks in it. Malzahar is a GOD on ARAM, that "E" of his eats minion waves giving you an easy first tower to push over. His "Q" can silence practically the width of the map! He is an easy Tier 1.
*shrug*
Any champ can do well in individual games, my experience playing with and against Malzahar is that he's below par for an AP champ on this map. His wave clear is nice and his best feature by far, however his Q is unreliable damage, people don't tend to stand in his W and his ult roots him in place to be easily hit by skillshots and initiation in general. Maybe he should be moved to Tier 3 though.
Atlas Wrote:Pantheon is a beast, manly because he is SUPER mean in the early game, that level 3-4 fight, the Pantheon team wins every time (all things being equal).
Sure if you get an early 5v5 fight he's good, he's great at hiding in the bushes at the start and doing heavy damage or getting a kill with his team in that sitation. After that though, he scales very poorly and is a bad tank and doesn't burst hard enough even when building AD.
Heimer would be higher, I haven't updated his place since the rework, as for Zed and Vlad I find it very difficult to judge their power since I think individual skill is such a big deal when using them. An average player probably won't affect the game much with them and that's why they are where they are.
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January 19th, 2014, 17:39
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(January 19th, 2014, 13:52)Dantski Wrote: Just keep in mind that this list is rather out of date, this was when AP Yi was still a thing!
Update the list please! Or rather just make a new post. i would happy to help craft one.
(January 19th, 2014, 13:52)Dantski Wrote: *shrug*
Any champ can do well in individual games, my experience playing with and against Malzahar is that he's below par for an AP champ on this map. His wave clear is nice and his best feature by far, however his Q is unreliable damage, people don't tend to stand in his W and his ult roots him in place to be easily hit by skillshots and initiation in general. Maybe he should be moved to Tier 3 though.
Agree his W is not very good, though with Liandry's it is a guaranteed way to get decent poke an number of champs at once since it procs intstantly, even if they move away. But I see your point he is not better than the other tier 2 APs like Morgana,
(January 19th, 2014, 13:52)Dantski Wrote: Sure if you get an early 5v5 fight he's good, he's great at hiding in the bushes at the start and doing heavy damage or getting a kill with his team in that sitation. After that though, he scales very poorly and is a bad tank and doesn't burst hard enough even when building AD. Fair points and the snowball is alot less in ARAM
[/quote]Heimer would be higher, I haven't updated his place since the rework, as for Zed and Vlad I find it very difficult to judge their power since I think individual skill is such a big deal when using them. An average player probably won't affect the game much with them and that's why they are where they are.
[/quote]
fair points
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