[SPOILERS] SevenSpirits trashes three estates and a copper

[SevenSpirits]

Interesting. You say it like he likes forges more than is reasonable. I figured they were easily one of the best builds around. You dislike them?

Forges are definitely strong, especially if there are precious metals around. However I think there is a bit of extra enthusiasm about them because it's so easy to see that they are profitable. They cost hammers and provide hammers, so you can just do some simple math and decide that after a certain amount of time they will pay back for themselves and after that it's pure profit. People forget about things like opportunity cost and the time value of money when doing this analysis. In fact, just because something will pay for itself eventually doesn't mean it's a good investment. You have to compare it to other things you could have done with those hammers, not the number of hammers you'd have if you just let them sit around doing nothing. It's also a commonly seen idea that if you are building two buildings, forge and X, you should build the forge first because it will give a discount on X. But man, maybe the benefits of X are greater even though they are not measured in hammers!

At this stage of the game, it's likely that granaries are the best builds around, followed by settlers and workers in an appropriate ratio. Then, depending on the city, a lighthouse, forge, potentially culture building or missionary, or courthouse, are probably contenders for next best thing. Though of course military is necessary too...

If I had Metal Casting right now I would be part-building 2 forges instead of barracks, but only as something to grow on, and only because I have no religion and am already #1 in power.

[Commodore]

Ah, cool, that makes sense, and I actually agree (exception: Industrious. If it's that cheap, build 'em everywhere after granary). I was glad to see you utilize the bonus happy from the forum. In 26 we had no precious metals but ivory, furs, whales, and silk, making markets obscenely good happy buildings. It is hard to quantify it though.

[SevenSpirits]

Check it out, I can update relatively frequently! Especially if lurkers comment a lot. So what's happening?


Plan MoM is looking good. Next turn I will get Calendar (no one else has it yet) and then 3t later (t54) I can finish MoM. This despite a stupid mistake - forgetting to research masonry. (I left tech set to calendar after doing the turn's tech C&D - oops! Quite a surprise when I got the next turn and couldn't build my quarry.) Anyway I managed to work around it just fine. I'm not quarry-chopping the jungle, rather just chopping first and then two more workers will join to quarry. The quarry finishes in 2t, just in time for MoM production to start. Turn after that, the trio of workers chop a roaded forest, and the turn after that, they chop another roaded forest. Meanwhile two other workers have been mine-chopping and will finish this on t54.

If you look closely at the picture you will notice I only have one roaded forest, despite my claims. Well, that's where worker #6 comes in, the one I whipped for overflow into MoM. He'll road the forest just in time for it to be chopped, because there's not enough time for him to chop it by himself.

Also in this picture you can see I have a sentry to avoid any nasty surprises. In fact, I'm trying to keep a warning net up in all directions.


Here's another warning net unit who's killed a warrior (pin) and a scout (dazed) so far. I want people to be afraid of approaching my borders, so that I don't actually have to defend them all the time. Same idea as the TSA really. Sorry for "patting down" your scout, dazed. Unfortunately there was no way I could move that would force him to go away from me.

You can also see I just whipped a settler and am overflowing into a worker. Together they will set up a new city on the copper hill. I am trying to put all my coastal cities on hills, because they all count as border cities and being a defender on this map sucks enough without hill defenses.


Here's another soon-to-be-settled city. I whipped a settler into a galley and will commence voyaging next turn. Originally I was planning to plop this settler just NNW of Hunting Party, and settle the northwestern island city later. But I think the northwestern one is better:
1) It claims a fish I can't claim with the gold/banana city.
2) It stakes a cultural claim in an area I want to control, and gives some good vision.
3) It has iron first-ring instead of second-ring.
4) It takes the exact same number of turns to settle, despite being farther away.
The drawback of course is that it will have higher maintenance, $2/turn at size 2. But I think I can live with that. And we're at the point where new cities are growth/production-limited, not tech-limited, in how fast they can get a courthouse.


Here's a view of that delicious banana/gold/dye city which I would like to settle ASAP. And the extremely delightful Scrying Pool below, site of my first lighthouse and home of abundant foodstuffs. This is the most annoying place in my empire to defend, because it's on the same sea as scooter with his potential 3-move galleys. He's already settled 2 cities on this sea, unlike me on the corresponding sea with zero. Right now I also have to worry about my worker improving the corn.


And here is Treasure Map, city of the amazing 8f tile. I had 2 workers improve it immediately upon founding, so the city only had to go 1t working an unimproved (ahem, 5f1h1c) tile. I also had another worker chop a forest so that it can whip a granary next turn. With the magic of avoid growth, finishing the granary the same turn it's due to grow is just fine. Next I am improving the silver just in time for King's Court to be happy at size 10. (And then once the whip anger wears off, size 11.)

Also, again note the sentry warrior to the north, who's been walking back and forth every two turns.




In foreign news, here's Charry the Emissary who tried to broker a deal with the Vikings. He announced his joyous arrival to a Viking lumberjack on a nearby hill. The lumberjack spoke not a word, but by his actions invited Charry back to his humble abode in the fresh city of Engineering. However, upon arriving at the city gates, our hero was greeted by his long-lost Viking brother, also named Charry. The Viking Charry was not trained in diplomatic affairs and said there was only about a 25% chance that he could permit Roman Charry to enter. Our hero now sent a courier back home to the head of Roman diplomacy, asking for permission to pop the Viking Charry. But the reply came back: Permission Denied. Shamed and disillusioned, the former star of the Roman diplomatic corps ran off to chase windmills.


And, er, here are my expenses. I thought they might be interesting?

[SevenSpirits]

Hm, look at all those forests around Treasure Map. Maybe I should try to build the GLH after all. I could get it in 9t using a whip of the LH and 5 chops and a third worker built in Hunting Party. And in fact I could build wealth to avoid investing any hammers in it until the last turn.

It's not the most amazing wonder here (expensive, just gives some more income, always war, and I will have several inland cities) but at this point (when I'm finally starting to have abundant growth, and costs of expansion are going up) it's probably worth a try.

[SevenSpirits]

Minor update.

t52 I really freaked myself out. Opened up the top cities screen and OH NO SOMEONE HAS ALREADY BUILT THE MAUSOLEUM?? Who's this Dominion guy anyway, is that dazed or pindicator or .... oh.



Also you can see here that Pindicator built Stonehenge (and that the ensuing wonder-city is more impressive than Dazed's capital). Shocking development, I know. He's probably going to get a big boost from HG too...

Meanwhile, opponents have been harassing me. Something about being 3 chariots worth of power up on second place just screams "I'm vulnerable!", I guess. Dazed sent a chariot at my south, which could have been quite annoying. Luckily it was visible several turns out so that when it finally moved into my territory, and into range of 3 separate forests with workers on them, I was prepared with a c1 chariot and warrior able to hit it. With the chariot attacking first, overall odds of victory were about 80% (vs 78% if the warrior, which had to cross a river, attacked first), which is good enough for me when the timeliness of my MoM plan is on the line. Luckily my chariot won the initial 68.1% battle so no warrior heroics were required, and I was not forced to run away with my workers for a turn while the backup chariot arrived from the capital.



At the same time, Yuri also sent a chariot at me. Grr, doesn't he have better things to do with his approximately 4 real combat units? This one came from the north, at the other city that wants to build a wonder (GLH) and was spotted by my patrolling warrior, in time to whip out a spear. Only casualties here are the 1 extra stacked whip anger and not being able to stockpile the GLH chop hammers under a wealth build.

[SevenSpirits]

Also I've now got the highest score and have 7 more pop than the next guy. Next turn I finish CoL, hopefully getting Confucianism. Need to figure out what to prioritize after that and Archery - Aesthetics etc, or Civil Service, or something else.

Dazed sent another chariot at me near Coppersmith, my desert copper hill city. It has combat 1 so I'll probably lose a unit killing it if it doesn't run away. Yuri's chariot, much more sensibly, is running away after seeing my spear.

[SevenSpirits]

Surprise, it's not an update. What do you guys want to know about?

[Krill]

Five thousand word strategy update please.

[Shoot the Moon]

And an empire/map overview. I'm only lurking your thread, so it's been hard to get a broader sense of what's been going on in the game besides your #1s in the demo screen. =)

[Commodore]

How do you win at game?